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All Dairy is Bad!(?) - Please discuss

H

Hirdy

New member
Don't shoot the messenger!

Recently Ive been hearing that not only is eating animal flesh bad for us, but eating dairy products is bad for us too.

Most people on this forum I suspect want to be healthy (or learn how to be healthy) and thats why we are here, so I thought this might be a relevant topic.

Ive grown up hearing from my parents and doctors and governments and ads on TV, even food pyramids that dairy is essential for us and that if you don't drink milk your bones will disintegrate and so on. It's all pretty simple really (that phrase should always ring alarm bells if you ask me), mammals suckle their young, so milk must be the elixir of life for us? Isn't it?

For some time now though there have been groups of people (e.g, Anthony Robins) who have been championing the idea that our diets are too acidic and we need to cut out things like alcohol, sugar, bad fats, vinegar, salt, tobacco etc which are supposedly (I don't know either way) responsible for acidity and a lot of diseases which are in turn responsible for people dying early.

Basically their premise is that our bodies/organs are constantly fighting hard to reduce our acidity levels and that they eventually wear out and we die of cancer or heart disease or whatever.

I don't think many people dispute this (on here at least) as plenty of studies show links between smoking and cancer, high salt and hardened arteries, high sugar and obesity etc. Also there are plenty of government funded ads telling us to cut these things (salt/bad fats/sugar etc) out to avoid disease. But I digress...

In the last few days I have heard 3 times that dairy products should be put in the same category which is quite alarming seeing as I drink about 1 litre or more of cows milk a day and rely on it as a source of protein (and whey protein powder is from milk too).

So Im after other posters thoughts on what they have heard about this and whether they agree or not. If true this promises to be a rather "inconvenient thruth" as dairy currently plays a major role in our economy and in our diets (esp as strength/trainee's).

On one hand we have ads telling us how good dairy is for us (funded by self serving dairy organisations) and on the other hand we have people who sell "alternatives" telling us the opposite (where i got a lot of the above from), such as here:

Tony Robbins - Nutrition 2

Could it be that our goverments are either wrong (or that we have been lied to) or is it that the world is so paranoid these days that if you can market a product that flies in the face of popular opinion you will always find a big enough segment to make some cash before fading into oblivion?

I just want to be healthy and live a long time, so how do I make the right decision here?
 
The first person who tries to tell me that milk (especially chocolate milk) or steak are bad for me gets a punch in the face.

And Tony Robbins can get fucked too.

Those are my 2c :p
 
El Freako said:
The first person who tries to tell me that milk (especially chocolate milk) or steak are bad for me gets a punch in the face.

And Tony Robbins can get fucked too.

Those are my 2c :p
Click to expand...

:D

I was actually expecting someone to just say "everything in moderation is okay" but have been pleasantly surprised...
 
I'm with El Freako on this one.

Talk of milk being bad usually comes from the animals rights hippy types.

If you are not lactose intolerant milk is fine.
 
Im with freako. Tree hugging fuckwits are always trying to make up bullshit to stop us eating meat and animal products.
 
So far the response hasn't been very open minded lol...

While Im not in any particular camp, milk is only one source of protein available to us and while mother nature intends for us to drink human milk when we are young, I can't think of a reason we HAVE to drink milk, rather we choose to drink it because it provides nutrients etc and it's accepted in our culture (all cultures I thought?).

I notice Fadi's 3200cal diet only has a couple of slices of cheese and some cottage cheese in it (with regards to dairy) so there is one example of a widely respected diet that hardly uses dairy as a staple.

Most health freaks are pushing for real, whole foods these days however milk is one of the most processed foods you can find and is incredibly high in salt.

I know both sides can refer to "scientific studdies" to back them up but I have no doubt we are being fed crap by dairy orgs, big supermarket chains and the government considering how big the industry is.

Anyway it's make me question why I drink so much milk and eat so much cheese/yoghurt etc as I've never really inquired as to why it's good for me.
 
Im all for drinking milk but I think getting your calories and protein from other sources such as steak, fish, chicken, rice, sweet potato is alot better for you and will give you better results all around.

Milk is great but its just to high in sugar, salt and really not that high in protein.

The guys that are on the 3-4L of milk a day shit I think is partly due to laziness and not willing to put in the effort to make good whole food meals.
 
tat maytals said:
Remember when people weren't lactose intolerant?

Look at the rest of your diet first...
Click to expand...

Im not sure what you mean...Some people get diarhoea every time they have a cup of milk, I'm pretty sure it still happened before they had a more palatable name for it?

As for MY diet, yeah Im sure there are other things to cross off the shopping list before dairy...dairy isn't my #1 offender thats for sure (more likely the 20 standard drinks I had Friday-Sunday).
 
Quote; "High fat diets are, without doubt, strongly linked to the alarming obesity levels in the US and UK, with research showing that 59% of American men and 49% of American women now being overweight."

Try saying that to someone on a keto diet!

There is no credible scientific evidence in that article, it is mostly accusations, opinions and miss leading statistics. The idea that milk and animal products are bad for us is akin to saying those that eat to much fruit are having to much fructose so to much suger etc. I think overwhelmingly, the reason people are fat/have deseases etc is because of the total lack of activity and over consumption of highly processed foods that are ridiculously high in calories/chemicals. I have friends that eat like shit but have 6 packs because they are so bloody active, and then again i have friends that are fat basteds that eat relatively healthy but do bloody nothing. I think alcohol has a lot to answer for though.
 
I'm not 100% on of it will kill us all...


What I am 100% sure about is that we will all die...

And I'm not dying a fucking vegan!
 
Rambodian said:
Quote; "High fat diets are, without doubt, strongly linked to the alarming obesity levels in the US and UK, with research showing that 59% of American men and 49% of American women now being overweight."

Try saying that to someone on a keto diet!

There is no credible scientific evidence in that article, it is mostly accusations, opinions and miss leading statistics. The idea that milk and animal products are bad for us is akin to saying those that eat to much fruit are having to much fructose so to much suger etc. I think overwhelmingly, the reason people are fat/have deseases etc is because of the total lack of activity and over consumption of highly processed foods that are ridiculously high in calories/chemicals. I have friends that eat like shit but have 6 packs because they are so bloody active, and then again i have friends that are fat basteds that eat relatively healthy but do bloody nothing. I think alcohol has a lot to answer for though.
Click to expand...

Good post Rambodian. You bring up a lot of issues, such as whether Keto diets are good for us, which also leads to whether high protein diets and BB diets or even carrying huge amounts of muscles on our frames is healthy too.

Tell someone with a six-pack they have a dangerously low, unhealthy fat % and they'll most likely tell you your the unhealthy fat pig.

There ARE people who say too much fruit is bad for the same reasons as dairy. They say that eating too much fruit or eating fruit after meals causes the fruit to ferment somewhat in our digestive system which can raise the acidity levels too.

The same people say high protein diets are bad for you. They better not visit this evil forum then haha.

I've always follwed the belief that by exercising i can kind of "serve my pennance" or get redemption/salvation from all the crap I eat, basically offsetting the alcohol and processed foods through blood, sweat and (muscle) tears - akin to your statement re: friends who eat crap but look good due to high activity levels.

It seems to work for my cardiologist at least. I tell him I drink too much, he says "but you ran a half marathon, keep up the good work".

Does looking good/lifting heavy mean you are healthy though? You could suffer from plenty of diseases yet look good on the outside (at least for a while).

For all I know, someone who's skinny fat but has a simple diet could potentially be healthier than someone who's constantly forcing their body to recover from muscle tears.
 
Yes, i agree Hirdy, lots of questions one might ask. But i think at the end of the day an individual approach must be taken, call it the ethical egoism viewpoint if you must, but at the end of the day, does it matter what statistics really mean? I mean if one feels healthy, likes what he eats and is generally happy about the way he/she goes about life, wouldn't that have a compelling effect on what the statistitions/docs have to say anyway? The way I see it, if you feel healthy, are happy, and generally can say life is good, than you are GENERALLY healthy, add lifting to that and health would substantially increase or moderate eventually right?.
From an egoist viewpoint, I say, whatever makes the INDIVIDUAL feel healthy, all things being equal of course. So than to quantify equallity in foods and health, one would consider the word MODERATION as key lol.

EDIT: Consider the placebo effect, its known to work wonders at times(= variability of effectiveness), so how one feels must be entered into the equation right?
 
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