best way to use my current stock of supps?

hi all,

i'm new to the forum, brief intro - been training since i was about 17, mostly on/off again due to training too hard, injuries etc. have had approx 10 months off due to a chronic injury and lack of motivation, but i started back seriously last week (pretty much every muscle in my body is sore atm lol)

so, i was looking through my cupboard and found a rather large supply of unused supps, namely:

- beta alanine
- citrulline malate
- arginine base (not actually sure what this is tbh)
- arginine ethyl ester
- creatine ethyl ester
- creatine mono
- plenty of BCAAs and EAAs
- calcium caseinate
- WPI
- WPC

all of the above are in powder form and not in short supply.

so if you had the above supps available, how would you use them?

also, current goal is simply to hit the gym hard for the next 10-12 weeks. not bulking, or cutting. just training hard. i am expecting i will probably gain weight due to the fact that i haven't trained virtually at all for the best part of a year. i guess you could call it a lean bulk

any advice would be greatly appreciated! cheers

mix them all up into a super energy drink, slam it, then go and smash all your PB's

My question is, how were you using these before? If you have such a large stack of all this stuff, what did you used to do with it?

I don't know a heap about supps.

Creatine before and after workout, WPI after. BCAA's and EAA's can be used before and after. WPC during the day, Cassein when you are going to bed.

The rest of the stuff I know is in a Pre Workout drink that I use, though I don't know what it is used for exactly.

Keep the creatine and protein for a pre and post workout drink.

Anything left unopened, sell. Anything already opened, bin.

Josh_GTiR said:

My question is, how were you using these before? If you have such a large stack of all this stuff, what did you used to do with it?

I don't know a heap about supps.

Creatine before and after workout, WPI after. BCAA's and EAA's can be used before and after. WPC during the day, Cassein when you are going to bed.

The rest of the stuff I know is in a Pre Workout drink that I use, though I don't know what it is used for exactly.

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well the protein supplmentation is all pretty straight forward. i don't actually use the WPI (unless i am out of WPC) and once i run out of WPI i will stop using it. casseinate before bed too.

i guess what i am more interested in is the arginine base vs arginine EE, creatine mono vs creatine EE, beta alanine and citrulline malate and more importantly the dosages? also timing of supplementation. i pretty much bought most of this stuff just when my injury woes started, so didn't really get into any of it in a big way (although i have experimented quite a bit with creatine).

seeing as i am just starting out again, i guess i am looking for a fresh outlook on what to use and how to use it

Kyle Aaron said:

Keep the creatine and protein for a pre and post workout drink.

Anything left unopened, sell. Anything already opened, bin.

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not a fan of supps hmm? pretty much all the stuff is open and i also got all the stuff dirt cheap (buying form a manufacturer), hence why i bought so much (just clarifying that i am not the type of person to buy some $80 bottle of 'wonder pills')

if its there i'd still use it rather than throwing it out. i just wouldnt buy anymore after that except protein, its just so handy to have around

so... is all the stuff 10 months old??

Mikasadan said:

so... is all the stuff 10 months old??

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yup, about that.

yeah, no chance i'm chucking it out. again, that is kinda part of my question, if you had all this stuff lying around, how would you make best use of it?

pistachio said:

not a fan of supps hmm?

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It's not that I am not a fan of supps as such, simply that I am a fan of whatever works. Most supps don't work.

The thing is that most of this stuff has no proven effect. Having a look at actual studies, we find few that have looked at these products in the context of resistance or endurance training, for those that have, the results are,

- beta alanine has no effect on HIIT results
- citrulline malate might improve cycling endurance a bit
- arginine base & arginine ethyl ester are the same thing, basically, an amino acid (the building blocks of protein). This is what your BCAAs and EAAs are, too. A review of the literature in 1999 concluded,


"Ergogenic" is science-speak for "gives you energy".

Creatine has been found to make you stronger after 5 days, but not just 2 days. And creatine consumed over 6 weeks when coupled with resistance training makes you stronger than resistance training alone.

Protein powder, whether "isolate", "concentrate", "casein", or simply a skim milk powder for $6/kg, is simply a quick and easy way to consume lots of protein.

A healthy and meat-eating diet will give you plenty of creatine, as it's present in meat; vegetarians would need to supplement, but both vegetarians and meat-eaters can get benefits from creatine supplementation.

A healthy diet will give you plenty of protein. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins, as I noted; if you eat any protein at all, then you get arginine, leucine and so on.

Here are four guys in 1949, before even protein powder had been invented, let alone all these supps, and certanly no steroids.


They just lifted heavy, ate well and slept deep. When you get as big and strong as them, then it might be time to worry about supps.

Kyle Aaron said:

It's not that I am not a fan of supps as such, simply that I am a fan of whatever works. Most supps don't work.

The thing is that most of this stuff has no proven effect. Having a look at actual studies, we find few that have looked at these products in the context of resistance or endurance training, for those that have, the results are,

- beta alanine has no effect on HIIT results
- citrulline malate might improve cycling endurance a bit
- arginine base & arginine ethyl ester are the same thing, basically, an amino acid (the building blocks of protein). This is what your BCAAs and EAAs are, too. A review of the literature in 1999 concluded,

"Current data, including results for several well-controlled studies, indicated that supplementation with arginine, ornithine, or lysine, either separately or in combination, does not enhance the effect of exercise stimulation on either hGH or various measures of muscular strength or power in experienced weightlifters. [...] BCAA or tryptophan supplementation do not seem to be effective ergogenics for endurance exercise performance, particularly when compared with carbohydrate supplementation, a more natural choice."
​

"Ergogenic" is science-speak for "gives you energy".

Creatine has been found to make you stronger after 5 days, but not just 2 days. And creatine consumed over 6 weeks when coupled with resistance training makes you stronger than resistance training alone.

Protein powder, whether "isolate", "concentrate", "casein", or simply a skim milk powder for $6/kg, is simply a quick and easy way to consume lots of protein.

A healthy and meat-eating diet will give you plenty of creatine, as it's present in meat; vegetarians would need to supplement, but both vegetarians and meat-eaters can get benefits from creatine supplementation.

A healthy diet will give you plenty of protein. Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins, as I noted; if you eat any protein at all, then you get arginine, leucine and so on.

Here are four guys in 1949, before even protein powder had been invented, let alone all these supps, and certanly no steroids.

They just lifted heavy, ate well and slept deep. When you get as big and strong as them, then it might be time to worry about supps.

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Ahh the clarity... nice one!

Since you've got them, I would probably use them something like this:

Pre-workout drink:

- beta alanine (between 2.5 to 5 grams)
- citrulline malate (not 100% sure on amount)
- arginine ethyl ester (Between 2.5 to 5 grams)
- creatine ethyl ester or creatine mono (5 grams)
- Dextrose to increase absorbancy

Intra-workout (not really required but since you've got AA's on hand)

- BCAA's and EAA's

Post Workout

- BCAA's and EAA's with Dextrose or WMS
- WPI/WPC concentrate blend


Before Bed

- calcium caseinate


I know there's alot of feelings each way on supps. The biggest thing I get from them is when I'm feeling low on energy pre-workout so use them to give me a boost. Even if it is placebo (as people often state) it can get you over the line and get you through a tough workout. I definately react positively to Beta Alanine though. You'll be wasting your supplements though if your diet and training isn't spot on.

Citrulline Malate - 2g

That is the amount that is in my pre workout drink. Maybe have a play around with quantities though.

- beta alanine 3g pre workout
- citrulline malate 2g pre workout
- arginine base mabey 2-4g pre workout
- BCAAs and EAAs 5-10g of each sipped during training.
- WPC - post training or whenever you want a shake.
- WPI -post workout.
- creatine ethyl ester 3g pre or post workout (i would say post)
- creatine mono 3g pre workout, 5g post.
- calcium caseinate - before bed
- arginine ethyl ester 1-2g before bed


beta alanine increases muscles ability to buffer lactic acid by increasing
carnosine levels in muscle cells. Good. (work harder for longer)

citrulline malate (like arginine, but supposedly a more effitient pre-cursor) basically a pump/NO ingredient. supposedly good. i havnt tried.

arginine base- increases nitrix oxide production and increases vascularity and muscle pumps. very debatable as to wheter it works or not. you decide.

BCAAs and EAAs- what protein is made of. prevents catabolism of the muscles while you train. enhances recovery. usefull when cutting. good.

WPC- fast release protein. after training to feed the muscles asap. better for lactose intolerant individuals. slightly higher amount of protein per 100g. imo, concentrate is fine.

WPI- slighty slower releasing than WPI. minimally more fat and carbs. as in single figures in grams compared to wpi. Good.

creatine ethyl ester- same as mono, but supposedly more effitient absorbtion with no bloat. debated. ok.

creatine mono- should be nuf said. makes muscles bigger for most ppl. some dont loike as they Bloat or cramp. drink plenty of H2O. good.

calcium caseinate- slow release protein. feed your muscles while you sleep. good.

arginine ethyl ester- same as arginine. before bed can supposedly support growth hormone production and help recovery. debated. mabey.

thanks for the feedback guys, all in consideration now and i will start using my supps next week (still only in my second proper week of training, so i don't really see much point using them yet)

cheers

Trade you for mymagic beans..

n00bs said:

Trade you for mymagic beans..

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i'll trade you for information on where i can get $8/kg WPC!

pistachio said:

i'll trade you for information on where i can get $8/kg WPC!

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LOL good call. We still want to know