Conflicting Supplements!

Hi Guys, I just wanted to ask a quick question about certain supplements and whether they are beneficial to use together or if they might actually counteract eachothers benefits.

For example, you wouldn't use Creatine with a Diuretic, since one promotes water retention while the other aids water loss.

Currently I'm 88kgs, with a reasonable build, albeit a body fat percentage of about 17%. I'm trying to increase lean muscle while decreasing bodyfat through eating a stack of protien, cutting excess carbs and taking the following supplements:

*Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey
*Gaspari Superpump 250 (pre-workout)
*Gaspari SizeOn (during/post workout)
*BSc Triandrobol (testosterone placebo)

I was wondering if I were to try Hydroxycut or a similar fat burning product, would it be counter-productive to any of those I have mentioned?

Any input or feedback would be great guys, and if you need more info from my life story let me know.

Cheers

I haven't seen anybody have much success with Hydroxy Cut. You need a calorie defecit and you should do some light cardio.

How old are you? I am of the thought that Testosterone boosters do not work, I have tried them myself and didn't think much about them.

Thanks Josh.

I get through reasonable amounts of Cardio, I'm one of the 'lycra-set' and cycle 50-80klms most weekends, I walk 2klm daily to and from work also play indoor football once or twice a week.

I'm 27, and have only just started taking Test Booster a week ago - So far i've seen or felt no effect, but we'll see.

As for Hydroxycut, its just a brand, so I'd be interested in hearing about what people have had success with - how about CLA?

Ace_82 said:

Hi Guys, I just wanted to ask a quick question about certain supplements and whether they are beneficial to use together or if they might actually counteract eachothers benefits.

For example, you wouldn't use Creatine with a Diuretic, since one promotes water retention while the other aids water loss.

Currently I'm 88kgs, with a reasonable build, albeit a body fat percentage of about 17%. I'm trying to increase lean muscle while decreasing bodyfat through eating a stack of protien, cutting excess carbs and taking the following supplements:

*Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey
*Gaspari Superpump 250 (pre-workout)
*Gaspari SizeOn (during/post workout)
*BSc Triandrobol (testosterone placebo)

I was wondering if I were to try Hydroxycut or a similar fat burning product, would it be counter-productive to any of those I have mentioned?

Any input or feedback would be great guys, and if you need more info from my life story let me know.

Cheers

Click to expand...

Hi Ace,

I've answered a similar question to yours before on this forum and it goes something like this: if your aim is to gain muscle mass whilst at the same time reduce fat mass, then the first thing you need to do is find your maintenance caloric intake number. Here you don't gain weight, but neither do you lose any. So before looking at what is after all a supplement (irrespective of what it is), it would be more profitable for you in my humble opinion to look at the bigger picture, i.e. your food plan.

I've noticed you didn't say a word about fat as a macro nutrient. I also didn't read anything by you regarding one of the most powerful testosterone boosters of all: the mighty cholesterol. Your main focus (and that's your right) was aimed at the supplements you've presented here.

For example, you wouldn't use Creatine with a Diuretic, since one promotes water retention while the other aids water loss.

Click to expand...

That is not necessarily so Ace. There's intracellular fluid and there's extracellular fluid. Don't underestimate people's intelligence: no one is going to buy creatine because it gives them extracellular fluid and makes them look puffy in the process, no Sir.

Take care.

Fadi.

Thanks for the feedback Fadi, the thought of calculating my maintenance caloric number or looking at fats hasn't occured to me as yet - I guess thats not the type of advice you'll get from the employees at the gym, since they have been instructed to sell and promotes supplements as the miracle answer to every question.

I was also unaware of the difference between intracellular and extracellular fluids, so I guess you learn something new every day!

Cheers!

Keep the creatine and the whey, bin the rest, they're useless or just more expensive versions of the first two in their effects.

In general, it is difficult to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. To get bigger, eat more than you spend in exercise; to get smaller, eat less than you spend. Sit on the couch and gain no muscle and some fat; lift weights and gain some muscle and some fat.

The exception is when you are a sedentary (ie low muscle mass person) and have relatively high bodyfat (20+% for an adult male). In this case, you can eat less than you spend, and the extra energy comes from your bodyfat. This can get you down to the mid-teens in bodyfat as you gain muscle.

For example,

in January you begin at 62.4kg lean and 20.6kg fat, or 82kg at 25%BF
you take up cardio and weight training,
and by June you are at 65.6kg lean and 12.8kg fat, or 78.4kg at 16%BF
and you have thus gained muscle and lost fat.
However, by August you are 65.9kg lean and 11.5kg fat, or 77.4kg at 15% BF.

So you can gain muscle and lose fat going mid-20s% BF to the mid-teens %BF, but will plateau there and have to make a choice; gain both, or lose both.

In fact, the example numbers are mine. From the mid-20s%BF to mid-teens, I gained 0.5kg lean and lost 1.3kg fat each month; but then at 16% I achieved only 0.15kg lean gain [smaller than margin of error of measurements, maybe no gain at all!] and lost 0.7kg fat each month. A plateau in change, I was losing fat but not gaining muscle.

From now on to gain muscle I must also gain some fat, to lose fat I must also lose some muscle.

Note that this process of high bodyfat people gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time applies only to people beginning with low muscle mass, ie sedentary people. If some 25% bodyfat strongman tries losing fat, he will lose muscle at the same time.

Thus at 17% bodyfat, depending on your current level of training, you may be able to gain muscle and lose fat until about 15% or so. After that, you must have bulking and cutting cycles. When you bulk, you gain both muscle and fat, when you cut, you lose both muscle and fat, but hope to lose less muscle than you gained, so that you end up ahead compared to before both cycles.

For example, let's say you begin at,
70kg lean, 12kg fat
and over 13 weeks bulk to,
73kg lean, 17kg fat
and over 13 weeks cut to,
72kg lean, 12kg fat
The net effect is that you have gone from 82kg at 15% to 84kg at 14% over six months.

A slow process, but one which is relatively easy to achieve, and is sustainable, not dependent on huge amounts of exercise, supplements, drugs and so on.

Very informative post there Kyle, thanks a lot

My pleasure, mate. I always worry that I have pitched the article as too complex or too simple, it helps if we know something about you first. I don't want to state the (to you) obvious, but don't want to talk over your head, either.

Thanks mate. As I'm sure almost anyone who has undertaken a fitness programme to alter their physique will agree - its every bit about learning as it is about lifting.