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Creatine Monhydrate Vs Creatine Ethyl Ester

Aek

New member

Alot of people always ask me which is better Creatine Mono or Creatine Ethyl Ester this debate on which is better has been raging on not only in forums but also in supplement shops, and at your local gym.

So i thought i would do my reasearch on the issue.

Creatine Ethyl Ester {What are the benefits ?}

Creatine ethyl ester is one of the newest forms of creatine. The ethyl ester prevents breakdown in the gut and prolongs the life of creatine in the blood.

Creatine ethyl ester is creatine monohydrate with an ester attached. The attachment of an ester is significant, because esters are found in the fat tissue of animals. But, why is this important?

What role does this have in the absorption of creatine?


When a ligand binds with the receptor site of a target cell, the cell, in the simplest of cases, changes its shape, opens up its ion channels and changes its function. In so-called "secondary messenger" or metabotropic cells, the ligand binds with the receptor site and an internal protein known as a g-protein is released. This released protein then binds to an internal site inside of the cell, and then the cell changes its behavior by opening its ion channels. Cells that operate in this way are known as metabotropic cells because their operation requires metabolic energy.

Passive permeation is a process that describes the diffusion of a substance across a cell membrane through the use of lipids as transport mechanisms. Because no "work" is being done by the cell in this model, this model is called passive permeation.
Creatine monohydrate utilizes lipids to permeate the cell wall and enter the cell. Because of this, the esterification of creatine, and the presence of esters in animal fat tissue, becomes significant.


Creatine monohydrate is semi-lipopholic. This means that it inefficiently uses fat as a transport mechanism. The esterification of substances will increase their lipopholic abilities, and thus esterified creatine will use fat more efficiently to permeate the cell wall and exert its effects upon cellular function than its unesterified creatine monohydrate counterpart.


This means, simply, that not only will dosage requirements be lower, but the absorption of esterified creatine will be increased and the infamous "creatine bloat" will be eliminated!


Draw Backs to it



Right amount of Creatine Ethyl Ester works, too much of it and it tastes like battery acid.

Creatine Monohydrate { Benefits and draw backs}


The granddaddy of all creatine. Creatine monohydrate has been proven time and time again in the scientific literature to not only increase stamina and strength but also to cause skeletal muscle growth through hypertrophy (expansion of existing muscle cells) and hyperplasia (the creation of new muscle cells from stem cells). Creatine loads water and nutrients into muscle cells resulting in massive pumps and an enhanced anabolic state. – Nothing works like Creatine Monohydrate, it is proven and is shown to increase the forming of new muscle cells


Draw Backs to it


was that, while seeing great results in muscle and strength gains, the increased water retention often led to a bloated feel and even appearance. Many people complained that, though their muscles did appear bigger, they had a somewhat "soft" aspect to them due to the increased water, at least while still taking the creatine. Since creatine ethyl ester is more easily absorbed in the body, the creatine bloat is not as significant. Many people have stated that they do not experience creatine bloat at all with creatine ethyl ester.

CONCLUSION

The ethyl ester prevents breakdown in the gut and prolongs the life of creatine in the blood. Combined with creatine monohydrate this results in a one-two punch of fast acting immediate action coupled with the longer duration of creatine ethyl ester.

YOU TAKE BOTH FORMS OF IT TO GET ALL THE BENEFITS
 
That was like one of those really long jokes with a great build up but dissapointing punch line.

But the conclusion is right I reckon. Although in saying that, If I can only afford one, I take mono, taking both (mainly the ee) is a luxury. Thumbs Up!
 
There was a big scam about BSN in the U.S about them using Mono instead of CEE in which i think did happen,

but not all companies fake their CEE

When purchasing supplements no matter where, whether it be here or overseas it needs to be made in a GMP facility this stands for

GOOD MANUFACTERING PROCESSES

What this means is that the company who uses a GMP facility regulary gets audited by goverment food inspectors who take samples and check for quality control.

This is done on a monthly bases

Although there are some smaller companies that dont register there companies or supplement premises {in the U.S that is not here} and these are the companies you need to be careful of.

This ensures that things like fake CEE don't happen i think at the moment Bsn has complied and is registered with GMP facilities.

Trust me it's not easy to get this certification.
 
I'm sure the purity of the CEE is fine, but did you not read this?

Creatine Ester Scam Exposed

December 12, 2008


ce2.jpeg
Creatine Ethyl Ester is widely used in dietary supplements. It contains a Creatine Molecule with an Ethyl group attached to it which is reported to advantages over Creatine Monohydrate. Supplement companies claim that the CEE provides greater solubility in fats, leading to improved absorption. Other companies claim that the CEE avoids the breakdown of creatine into creatinine in stomach acids. Often the norm in the supplement industry, none of these claims have been tested in any study … until now!
Creatine Esters vs. Creatine Monohydrate

cm2.jpeg
Three commercial creatine products were put to the test:
  1. “CM2 Alpha” which is made by SAN (pictured on right)
  2. CE2 made by MRI. (pictured above)
  3. Creatine Monohydrate (standard Creapure brand).
Each product product was placed in 900 ml of Hydrochloric Acid and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes.

Test Results After 30 Minutes
  • Only 73% of the initial CEE present was available from CE2.
  • While the amount of CEE available from SAN’s CM2 Alpha was even lower at only 62%.
  • In contrast, more than 99% of the Creatine remained available from the regular Creatine Monohydrate product.
Test Results After 120 Minutes
  • 72% of the initial CEE was available from CE2.
  • Only 11% available from San CM2 Alpha.
  • In contrast, more than 99% of the creatine remained available from CM.
http://ausbb.com/bodybuilding-supplements/8002-creatine-ester-scam-exposed.html
 
I would like to see the study itself, in order to verify authenticity on the matter.
 
I have read other studies about this on other sites such as BB.com. Also lots of feedback from guys saying in does F*ck all yet not many (if at all) say Mono does nothing. yes some get a bloat but better a bloat with gains then no gains + you can always take a mild herbal diuretic if bloating is a problem.
 
I also can show you studies that verify that CEE is better than Mono but do they hold any credibilty is the real question we should be asking ourselves here.

I do agree that there some people out there that do not respond to creatine at all

Dorian Yates was one of them.

But if you read my supplement sample thread, {Anadraulic State Thread} 4 out of 5 people have responded with the creatine formulas that i had given them.

and 4 out of 5 say that would be more than happy to purchase them.

Cold Fusion has received some very positive feedback and this item contains mostly CEE.

Does this mean it does not work ???

The way i look it Shrek is that you try the product and see for yourself real life supplementation, it's very basic you try a product and see whether it works or not

That's why i chose 5 complete strangers and did my samples, this is how you judge products in my book.

Because there is alot of hype out there especially when it comes to supplements.
 
AWell the best way to judge a product or compound is by feedback. Now A. State hase various types of creatines, but how do we know which one is giving the best benefit. it could be the Mono?
 
Aek, you seem to have the right motivation but you shouldn't draw those conclusions from the 'study' you did. Proper scientific studies should involve, at the very least, baseline observations, placebos, double blinding and a control group. There are also all kinds of statistical anomalies that can crop up, especially when the participants are self reporting the results.

In short, it is better to get your information from reputable scientific journals.
 
I totally understand where you are coming from snookmz, but there are scientific studies for and against CEE

So my question is how do you distinguish which is true and which is false. Some companies hire there own scientists and make up the rules as they go along, while others do indipendent studies.

How does the public know which is which??

If you were to ask me personally whether CEE works i would say it does, because my cold fusion Product mostly contains CEE, the other two creatines are present, but there is more CEE. As i have the documents in precise quantaties on my import permit.

Look guys when it comes to supplements whether here or overseas there is always alot of hype surrounding it.

Companies need to disclose everything to AQIS in order to pass the items through customs. Sometimes Customs can request for a sample of the product to check that everything stated in the ingridients is actually in there.

If you were to really find whether a product works then dont take anything and try CEE for a couple of weeks and see what happens,

Its' easy not hard to do

If you were to take shrek's comments on Ethyl ester to the exact word then Cell Mass from BSN would be worth-less because it's main ingridient is Ethyl ester even though at the start of there launch there was some contraversy as to what it contained.

I could honestly tell you now it does contain Ethyl Ester, because of the GMP standards imposed on the company.

Cell Mass would not sell at all {If it did not work}, but i dont see Cell Mass dropping sales as matter of fact it's advertised everywhere in every possible magazine here and the U.S.

Every store stocks there items and i honestly dont see sales dropping at all

That's what i have always advocated that people try it for themselves and it's been clearly pointed out by some individuals that they do not respond at all to Creatine while others rave on about it.

It's up to the people to decide whether a product works or not !
 
There is an easy way to tell if a study is reasonable or not - and that is to look at the methodology and statistics of the study. The study should have a placebo, and control group, all groups should be comprised of the same type of individuals and the same number with a minimum of 20 in each group. For example if you are testing a product on ONLY athletes, you would use athletes from similar backgrounds doing similar training in a similar area of specialisation and you would have 20 take their normal supplements (control) 20 take their normal supplements and a placebo. and 20 take normal supplements + your test (unless what they normally take will interfere with the functioning of the supplement you are giving them). If you want to ascertain if the supplement works in isolation (without other supplements) then you need two groups only placebo + test.

The statistics must then be reasonable - ie performed in a mathematically sound way with a proper t-test to a reasonable certainty level, with the outliers SHOWN and explained - so you can tell who they are ommiting from the stats and why.

If they are testing it on different types of individuals (ie some athletes, some body builders, some couch potatos) then there should be 20 of EACH type in EACH group - as you can see a study of this type gets very large very quickly. However its the only way to say that a supplement has a positive effect on a wide range of people.

My job is research - I'm a PhD student and lecturer. Its very easy to tell a good methodology from a bad one when you have been doing research for a while. So far I'll say this:

There is NO study which says Creatine EE affects a wide range of people in a positive OR negative manner. There are a few poorly conducted (supplement company backed) studies that have skewed stats and methodology showing it works. And a few studies showing it doesn't work in a small sample size of certain types of individuals / in vitro (test tube only test). Until a proper study comes along - I'll listen to those who are taking it (in isolation from other types of creatine etc) and give it the thumbs down - most say it doesn't work. Creatine mono however has proven to work both in the gym and in well conducted studies.
 
Also BSN use Mono in their Cell Mas, why? Actually they use CEM3 which is Tri-Creatine Malate.
 
Also BSN use Mono in their Cell Mas

Cell Mass

Supplement Facts:

Supplement Facts: Serving Size: 1 Scoop (16g)
Servings Per Container: 40

Amount Per Serving:

Calories 40
Sodium 70mg
Potassium 140mg
Carbs 9.5g
Calcium 80mg
Phosphorous 150mg

CEM3 3000mg
(Creatine Ethyl Ester Malate)

Glutamine AKG 2000mg

Muscle Cell Uptake Proprietary Matrix: 950mg
- Cinnulin-PF
- Calcium Phosphate
- Di-Potassium Phosphate
- Di-Sodium Phosphate
 
Yes i did mention a it couple of times in my earlier posts, as there was some contraversy as what was in it,

and yes they are being sued

This has prompted the FDA to conduct an investigation, this why i know that they are putting in Creatine Ethyl Ester Malate.

The true form of it, they can not afford any bad publicity

Now as to what happens in the case well put it this way i reckon BSN will probably pay some hush money in order to keep the whole thing a secret, you know what i mean
 
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