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Big Mick
15-05-2016, 10:54 PM
Do you take them??

If yes which ones, if no why not??

Any research or opinions of why and why not.

I currently take Cenovis Men's Multi Performance.

Why?? Just in case, I do miss it often and will go without taking it for a while.

Don't notice any difference if I take it and don't take it, so not sure if there is any real benefits to it.

White_Lie
15-05-2016, 11:17 PM
Used to, haven't for a long time and can't say I notice any difference.
Usually just have magnesium, no real need for anything else

StrungOut
16-05-2016, 10:08 AM
Generally only take them when I am starting to feel sick. Does it make a difference? Honeslty no idea, could just be a placebo effect. ON is what I have at the moment

Bazza20
16-05-2016, 10:33 AM
If you think you are deficient go to the doc and get a blood test and take the vitamin you are deficient in rather than taking a heap of random shit for no reason.

As for the research there was a large observational study done with something like 20+ thousand people and the people taking multi vitamins had a higer death rate. Now this does not mean multi vitamins are causing more people to die but it doesn't look good for the benifits of taking a multi vitamin for no reason.

The other problem is people think vitamins are harmless, they are still a chemical that can have side effects on the body. There was a cancer treatment trial with vitamin e from memory. The trial was pulled because the vitamin e was causing massive increases in cancer.

Also some tableted vitamins don't end up having the same benifical effects that vitamins from food do. Eg eating a diet high in antioxidant vitamins can prevent cancer. Taking tablets high in antioxidant vitamins seems to have zero to negative effects on cancer prevention.

remeber the suppliment industry unlike the drug industry is unregulated. They can sell vitamin and mineral tablets without safety testing. It's only when people start dying do the get looked at for safety.

steveP
16-05-2016, 12:34 PM
I currently take Cenovis Men's Multi Performance.

Why?? Just in case, I do miss it often and will go without taking it for a while.

Don't notice any difference if I take it and don't take it, so not sure if there is any real benefits to it.

It's that attitude the whole reason you're anti supplements? Doing something for no reason other than "just in case".

Most vitamins are water soluble, so you can't really overdose on them if you don't need them. I think the research is showing that the vitamin gel casing can cause problems though if you take too many.

I only take what I know I'm deficient in or I see a direct benefit from. I don't take multis as if you need them, you've got a shit diet. The basic meat and veg in your diet should cover the minute dosages in the multis.
- Vitamin D - Unless you live near the equator, you're deficient in this. Low Vitamin D can lower testosterone.
- Vitamin C - Good for the immune system, especially if you train regularly and your body is in a state of stress daily. I very rarely get sick since taking this. Maybe a mild runny nose once a year.
- Vitamin B12 (sometimes) - I only really take this when dieting. It helps with gut health/enzymes, which are upset easily when on a low calorie diet or taking a lot of caffeine/stimulants. It definitely helps an upset stomach when needed.
- Magnesium - Good for preventing cramps when training regularly. When I stop taking it, I do get cramps from time to time.
- Fish oil - I know some people say is does nothing and doesn't directly lubricate joins, but I never get joint pain until I stop taking it.

Big Mick
16-05-2016, 12:55 PM
It's that attitude the whole reason you're anti supplements? Doing something for no reason other than "just in case".

Who ever said I am anti supplement??

I am anti useless. I know you are a supplement fan boy and blindly lap up what is written on the glossy label, but you need to look past that and understand what you are taking and why.

For example a tub of BCAA's can cost up to $100 or more, yet does absolutely nothing, zero, nada as I already have all the BCAA's I need and more from just the food I eat. I have gone through a few kilos of BCAA's in my time and has not made an iota of difference, have tried EEA's no difference again as everyone who eats their fill of protein has more than enough.

You will find that if you actually look into what you are taking that it does nothing as you are already consuming enough of what ever you are taking.

As a matter of fact you will find that once you stop taking all that crap you actually feel better and have a few hundred $$ more to spend on other things.

Marketing will tell you to buy BCAA"S and pre workouts, switching your own brain on and looking at it you will (should?)see how ridiculous it is, with all the protein you eat any additional BCAA'S are probably and most likely doing you more harm that good, by putting additional strain on your organs, processing these out of balance amino acids/chemicals that you already have an excess of needing to be processed and eliminated/excreted from your body.

Easiest way to explain it you have a 20 litre jerry can and you insist on filling it with 30 litres of fuel as it will get you further whilst ignoring the 10 litres getting spilled on the ground.

I never said I am anti supplement, if you have had blood tests and the doctor tells you that you have a shortage of BCCA's or anything else I would suggest may be using a supplement, otherwise, you are just trying to self medicate blindly, putting stuff into your body without rime or reason.

So no I am not anti supplement I am anti taking stuff you very well know you already have an excess of, with your diet for example any BCAA's you take just get pissed out putting extra load on your kidneys and liver or where ever they get processed.

The only reason I consider multivitamin/mineral (which are a supplement by the way) is because I am pretty certain that I do not get every single vitamin/mineral every single day from my diet. But I am not 100% certain these days that I need every single mineral and vitamin every day, and that the occasional dose may be enough.

Hence the discussion thread here.

Big Mick
16-05-2016, 01:09 PM
If you think you are deficient go to the doc and get a blood test and take the vitamin you are deficient in rather than taking a heap of random shit for no reason.

As for the research there was a large observational study done with something like 20+ thousand people and the people taking multi vitamins had a higer death rate. Now this does not mean multi vitamins are causing more people to die but it doesn't look good for the benifits of taking a multi vitamin for no reason.

The other problem is people think vitamins are harmless, they are still a chemical that can have side effects on the body. There was a cancer treatment trial with vitamin e from memory. The trial was pulled because the vitamin e was causing massive increases in cancer.

Also some tableted vitamins don't end up having the same benifical effects that vitamins from food do. Eg eating a diet high in antioxidant vitamins can prevent cancer. Taking tablets high in antioxidant vitamins seems to have zero to negative effects on cancer prevention.

remeber the suppliment industry unlike the drug industry is unregulated. They can sell vitamin and mineral tablets without safety testing. It's only when people start dying do the get looked at for safety.

I hate to admit it but I tend to agree with pretty much all of this.

I would even suggest to take it a step further and if you are found deficient of a vitamin to include additional food containing that vitamin in your diet, rather than a supplement, I am starting to believe that it's not only the individual vitamin, but the natural combination of enzymes/minerals/vitamins found in a whole food that is important.

And I think this is why people actually feel better and make better gains when they take no supplements but just eat a balanced diet of foods that are beneficial towards their goals rather than use supplements and feed the body on crap, which a lot of 'body builders' tend to do.

The more I think about it and the more I look into it the less reason I can see why you need to take vitamins.

Bazza20
16-05-2016, 01:15 PM
I never get why people say "I hate to admit it" or " I hate to agree" when they agree with something certain people say. Shows weak character when people take things so personally that they don't want to agree with something just because of who posted it. They can't separate emotion from the statements posted

steveP
16-05-2016, 01:31 PM
Who ever said I am anti supplement??
I am anti useless. I know you are a supplement fan boy and blindly lap up what is written on the glossy label, but you need to look past that and understand what you are taking and why.


You read my training log, what in there makes me a supplement fan boy? Some protein powder in my yoghurt or a BCAA blend with electrolytes mid workout? If you want to get down to what we really need, you should be drinking nothing but water (no coffee, diet/regular soft drinks, milk, juice, etc). No sauces on your food, no extra salt or pepper on anything. Everything should be steamed or boiled and not cooked with oil.

Why does everything have to always be one extreme or the other? Eat/drink whatever benefits you and helps you get towards your goal. If BCAAs and WPI gets you closer to your protein macro, go for it. If a BCAA flavoured drink is a good alternative to a bottle or sugar filled Gatorade, go with that option. And guess what, you can still eat real food and drink whatever you like. As a rational living creature we have the ability to pick and chose what works for us. A shocking concept, I know.

Bazza20
16-05-2016, 01:37 PM
Who is adding tommy sauce or pepper as a supplement to improve performance or health. Lol.

We are talking supplements that have claimed health and performance benefits not condiments.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Big Mick
16-05-2016, 01:48 PM
You read my training log, what in there makes me a supplement fan boy?


[QUOTE=steveP;702127]


--- Food ---------------------------------------- Calories ----- Fats ----- Protein ----- Carbs

BREAKFAST (7am)
Omelette - No Carbs (4 egg whites, 1 egg,
20g feta cheese). ------------------------------- 204 ---------- 50% ------ 49% --------- 1%
OR
Yoghurt - No Carbs (170g low fat yoghurt,
30g WPC/WPI protein). --------------------------- 217 ----------- 4% ------ 78% --------- 18%

MID MORNING (11am)
30g WPC/WPI protein. 5g instant coffee. --------- 115 ---------- 7% ------- 84% --------- 9%

LUNCH (2pm)
40g cashews. ------------------------------------ 254 ---------- 73% ------ 11% --------- 17%
OR
40g almonds. ------------------------------------ 238 ---------- 74% ------ 13% --------- 13%
OR
1 Quest bar. ------------------------------------ 211 ---------- 35% ------ 31% --------- 33%

PRE WORKOUT (5pm)
6 rice cakes. ----------------------------------- 180 ---------- 21% ------ 7% ---------- 72%

10g pre workout & BCAAs. ------------------------ 34 ----------- 1% ------- 13% --------- 86%

POST WORKOUT (6:30pm)
30g WPC/WPI protein. 30g dextrose.
5g creatine. ------------------------------------ 255 ---------- 3% ------- 45% --------- 51%

DINNER (8pm)
Kale Shake (100g kale, 50g spinach,
25g celery, 25g Lebanese cucumber,
10g garlic, 10g ginger). ------------------------ 84 ----------- 13% ------ 26% --------- 61%

300g chicken breast. ---------------------------- 495 ---------- 21% ------ 79% --------- 0%
OR
275g rump beef. --------------------------------- 487 ---------- 28% ------ 72% --------- 0%
OR
250g salmon. ------------------------------------ 505 ---------- 59% ------ 41% --------- 0%
OR
Omelette (4 egg whites, 2 eggs,
100g of smoked salmon, 40g feta cheese). -------- 487 ---------- 53% ------ 46% --------- 1%

BEFORE BED (10pm)
10g Metamucil. ---------------------------------- 34 ----------- 0% ------- 0% ---------- 100%


TOTAL (Target based on 72.5kg: f*0.6, p*2.7, c*1.5) ---------- (43.5g) ----- (195.7g) ----- (108.7g)

Average ----------------------------------------- 1649 - 26% (46.8g) - 47% (192.6g) - 27% (109.4g) - Fibre 16.5g


Highlighted some for you, not counting the fat burners and other rubbish you talk about taking.



If you want to get down to what we really need, you should be drinking nothing but water (no coffee, diet/regular soft drinks, milk, juice, etc). No sauces on your food, no extra salt or pepper on anything. Everything should be steamed or boiled and not cooked with oil.

Why?? This is the problem right here.

Why not just eat normal food that helps you achieve your goals, I have been through this before with you. What is wrong with steak and salad vegies, stir fries, BBQ'd meats marinated in various marinades etc etc, the choices are endless. Good food does not have to taste like cardboard.

You eat rubbish like quest bars and rice cakes, seriously who the fuck eats rice cakes and why, would love to know what benefit they have, yet you throw out the best part of the egg, the part that has all the nutrients that will help your muscles to grow the part that tastes the best the part that helps your hormone levels to remain elevated when you make omelettes?? Makes no sense when you actually think about it

Darkoz
16-05-2016, 01:53 PM
You eat rubbish like quest bars and rice cakes, seriously who the fuck eats rice cakes and why, would love to know what benefit they have, yet you throw out the best part of the egg, the part that has all the nutrients that will help your muscles to grow the part that tastes the best the part that helps your hormone levels to remain elevated when you make omelettes?? Makes no sense when you actually think about it

I concur with this

And I'm glad to admit it

Shrek
16-05-2016, 01:58 PM
I think the argument is
"Whether they do aything" as opposed to "Whether you chose to or not"?

The question will remain unresolved more than likely.

Darkoz
16-05-2016, 02:03 PM
whether

Goosey
16-05-2016, 02:10 PM
Dr Kenneth Cooper (who made aerobics popular) in the mid eighties noticed that marathon runners are mostly not well, and noted a high cancer rate....

there red is a lot more to it but. Digress.

he thought it was due to the immune system being low and oxidization of the cells, the prime cause.

the antioxidant revolution was born 10 years later he again about faced and said the it was in fact due (in extreme cases) to mostly bought on by overuse, (stress) the bodies inability to function as it should, no amount of supplements can fix this.

Shrek
16-05-2016, 02:28 PM
Are we talking vitamins and minerals or supplements in general now.
Bodybuilding supps (some) do have scientific backing.

steveP
16-05-2016, 02:36 PM
Why not just eat normal food that helps you achieve your goals, I have been through this before with you. What is wrong with steak and salad vegies, stir fries, BBQ'd meats marinated in various marinades etc etc, the choices are endless. Good food does not have to taste like cardboard.

You eat rubbish like quest bars and rice cakes, seriously who the fuck eats rice cakes and why, would love to know what benefit they have, yet you throw out the best part of the egg, the part that has all the nutrients that will help your muscles to grow the part that tastes the best the part that helps your hormone levels to remain elevated when you make omelettes?? Makes no sense when you actually think about it

I do eat normal food. That's the point you glossed over. Why one extreme or the other? You seem to think people either live off sups or they have to banned. 4/5 of what I consume is regular raw food that I cook.

I use sups where convenient. So your example of a sup junkie is someone who takes some WPI, creatine and carbs? Bit of a newsflash, but they're closer to real food than you think.

I take a protein shake to work as I prefer to sip on it than munching on steak (same macros).
I use egg whites alongside regular eggs as it adds more volume for less calories.
I eat rice cakes before training because I want a light carb source that isn't filling. I actually find it funny that you think rice cakes (a basic, raw food with plenty of fibre) is rubbish, then go on to say eat more real food.

I think this is why you get into so many arguments on here. You have all these strong held opinions based on no research or experience. The foods I eat and the minimal sups are very standard in diets of people who train. You seem like a bit of a beginner not knowing that.

Darkoz
16-05-2016, 02:39 PM
I'm pretty sure the thread title is Multi Vitamin discussion

Goosey
16-05-2016, 02:47 PM
Are we talking vitamins and minerals or supplements in general now.
Bodybuilding supps (some) do have scientific backing.

I think we need to go beyond that to understand that no amount of vitamin, mineral, enzyme, stimulant, Protien... "supplement" will do fuck all if these things aren't addressed;

* diet
* not working hard enough in the gym
* sleep
* too much activity
* a tranquil mind

Goosey
16-05-2016, 02:53 PM
If you think you are deficient go to the doc and get a blood test and take the vitamin you are deficient in rather than taking a heap of random shit for no reason.

As for the research there was a large observational study done with something like 20+ thousand people and the people taking multi vitamins had a higer death rate. Now this does not mean multi vitamins are causing more people to die but it doesn't look good for the benifits of taking a multi vitamin for no reason.

The other problem is people think vitamins are harmless, they are still a chemical that can have side effects on the body. There was a cancer treatment trial with vitamin e from memory. The trial was pulled because the vitamin e was causing massive increases in cancer.

Also some tableted vitamins don't end up having the same benifical effects that vitamins from food do. Eg eating a diet high in antioxidant vitamins can prevent cancer. Taking tablets high in antioxidant vitamins seems to have zero to negative effects on cancer prevention.

remeber the suppliment industry unlike the drug industry is unregulated. They can sell vitamin and mineral tablets without safety testing. It's only when people start dying do the get looked at for safety.

I think I'd like to clarify this by stating that if you need to go to the GP to find out whether you are deficient in a vitamin is a tad silly, you go to a GP WHEN YOU ARE NOT WELL, he will decide whether you are deficient in something, more often than not its not a vitamin, more so a bad diet in general.

fuck, if bodybuilders aren't adding muscle or their tired all the time, there is either something wrong with their regimen or overall diet, usually too many poptarts, sugary drinks and not enough real food.

Shrek
16-05-2016, 02:55 PM
No arguments from me there.
All I take these days is protein powder and a stimulant....... unless it is hormonal 😃😃😃😃

Bazza20
16-05-2016, 03:32 PM
I think I'd like to clarify this by stating that if you need to go to the GP to find out whether you are deficient in a vitamin is a tad silly, you go to a GP WHEN YOU ARE NOT WELL, he will decide whether you are deficient in something, more often than not its not a vitamin, more so a bad diet in general.

fuck, if bodybuilders aren't adding muscle or their tired all the time, there is either something wrong with their regimen or overall diet, usually too many poptarts, sugary drinks and not enough real food.

Why is going to a GP to see if you are deficient in a vitamin silly?

onslaught
16-05-2016, 08:26 PM
- Vitamin D - Unless you live near the equator, you're deficient in this. Low Vitamin D can lower testosterone.


Instead of being a jerk I'll ask you for your source that allows you to claim the above because at this stage, ima call it bullshit.

Vitamin D in a bottle makes no sense at all.

onslaught
16-05-2016, 08:27 PM
Generally only take them when I am starting to feel sick. Does it make a difference? Honeslty no idea, could just be a placebo effect. ON is what I have at the moment

This is pretty much what I do, multivitamin and a pseudo chaser :p

Goosey
16-05-2016, 09:02 PM
Why is going to a GP to see if you are deficient in a vitamin silly?



Are you sick or not?

Feeling tired all the time?
Depressed?
Brain Fog?
Hair falling out?
Spots on your dick?

Bazza20
16-05-2016, 09:03 PM
Are you sick or not?

Feeling tired all the time?
Depressed?
Brain Fog?
Hair falling out?
Spots on your dick?


That didn't answer my question but yes spots on my dick.

Goosey
16-05-2016, 09:08 PM
Instead of being a jerk I'll ask you for your source that allows you to claim the above because at this stage, ima call it bullshit.

Vitamin D in a bottle makes no sense at all.

I think he is stating that a man with very dark skin requires more sunlight than a man with fair skin.

I read somewhere that we can blame sunscreen for depression in some cases.

I think that when you are crook it ultimately all comes down to the type of food we poke in our pie hole, just my opinion.

Goosey
16-05-2016, 09:11 PM
That didn't answer my question but yes spots on my dick.


I think it did

Bazza20
16-05-2016, 09:21 PM
I think that when you are crook it ultimately all comes down to the type of food we poke in our pie hole, just my opinion.

A lot of the time it doesn't.

And no you still didn't answer the question. No cryptic answers please, Why wouldn't you go to a GP to get your vitamin levels checked?

Goosey
16-05-2016, 09:43 PM
A lot of the time it doesn't.

And no you still didn't answer the question. No cryptic answers please, Why wouldn't you go to a GP to get your vitamin levels checked?

A lot of the time it does.

And yes I did.
Why and when would you go to the doctor and ask him to check your vitamin levels?

Bazza20
16-05-2016, 11:03 PM
A lot of the time it does.

And yes I did.
Why and when would you go to the doctor and ask him to check your vitamin levels?

You don't have the ability to simply answer a question do you.

Goosey
16-05-2016, 11:30 PM
You don't have the ability to simply answer a question do you.

No apparently I don't I'm a fuckin cancer mate.

Shrek
16-05-2016, 11:44 PM
Whoooa!
I decide who's cancerous or not. 😉

Darkoz
16-05-2016, 11:47 PM
So who's cancerous then hmmm?

Goosey
16-05-2016, 11:49 PM
So who's cancerous then hmmm?

Im solely responsible for the downfall of this forum and I apologize

Darkoz
16-05-2016, 11:52 PM
Im solely responsible for the downfall of this forum and I apologize
Who said that?

Shrek
16-05-2016, 11:53 PM
Sooooo for those that do take multi's, what brand do you buy?

Goosey
16-05-2016, 11:57 PM
Who said that?

Too cryptic?

farrk, I've done it again.

Darkoz
16-05-2016, 11:58 PM
A name will do

Shrek
16-05-2016, 11:58 PM
Take it to PM.

steveP
17-05-2016, 12:31 AM
Instead of being a jerk I'll ask you for your source that allows you to claim the above because at this stage, ima call it bullshit.

Vitamin D in a bottle makes no sense at all.

Complete with studies.
http://examine.com/supplements/Vitamin+D/

steveP
17-05-2016, 12:34 AM
I'm pretty sure the thread title is Multi Vitamin discussion

My point was that Mick is basing taking a multi on no evidence of what it does or whether he's deficient in anything. Then he makes hypocritical claims against other (sports) supplements, where most people do the same.

Darkoz
17-05-2016, 12:37 AM
That crazy Micky

Repacked
17-05-2016, 12:42 AM
That didn't answer my question but yes spots on my dick.

:D

My dick is depressed.

Darkoz
17-05-2016, 12:46 AM
I had a steering wheel on my dick once, it drove me nuts

Repacked
17-05-2016, 12:54 AM
I had a steering wheel on my dick once, it drove me nuts

Ooh, nice one :D

Did you find you were quite horny?

Darkoz
17-05-2016, 01:19 AM
Ooh, nice one :D

Did you find you were quite horny?
I was beeping my horn every chance I got, sometimes for no reason even

Goosey
17-05-2016, 10:19 AM
Try turning with a hard on

Repacked
17-05-2016, 12:17 PM
Try turning with a hard on

Hard right hander?

Grunta
17-05-2016, 12:19 PM
vitamins give you arse cancer............................every kunce knows that

Repacked
17-05-2016, 12:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjsL3hqP-P0

Goosey
17-05-2016, 12:36 PM
Hard right hander?

Totes

Big Mick
17-05-2016, 11:51 PM
My point was that Mick is basing taking a multi on no evidence of what it does or whether he's deficient in anything. Then he makes hypocritical claims against other (sports) supplements, where most people do the same.

I think you are again confused.

Yes I take a multi at this stage 'just in case', as I am fairly certain that I am not consuming (not sure anyone would) a diet that gives you the exact requirements of each and every vitamin/mineral that I may require each and every day.

For example I can't remember last time I ate an orange, so am I still getting enough Vitamin C?? I have no idea, but if I ate three oranges or amounts of berries daily, I would obviously not take a vitamin C supplement as it would be pointless.

I know for example that I consume enough protein daily, so no need for shakes EEA's and BCAA's etc So why am I not taking shakes and BCAA's?? You say because I am anti supplement (which clearly I am not and this is where you are confusing things)I don't take them as I already have plenty of these things from my diet and I know I have as they are easy to monitor, so why would I supplement something I already eat plenty off?? Only an idiot would do that. The days when I don't eat mucj or my protein intake has been low and I been training hard I will supplement with a shake, Why?? Because I need extra protein.

See a pattern here?? If you already have plenty of something no need to supplement.

This is where you and me differ, and where I have done the research and you have not. Even though your diet already contains an excess of BCAA's and both you and I know this you still insist on taking them most likely to the detriment of your organs and long term health.

Remember the 30 litres of fuel going into the 20 litre jerry can?? Ask yourself what happens to the extra 10 litres??

steveP
18-05-2016, 11:50 AM
How do you know the vitamins you take actually contain clinical dosages? You could and most likely are just getting "pixie dust", just enough so the the vitamin can claim it has that ingredient. It just seems that for someone who claims they do a lot of research, you don't even research the few things you do take.

Supplements/protein powder/BCAAs don't only need to be taken when deficient, but as an alternative to the whole food. There are many reasons for this such as it's more convenient or you just want to mix it up. Like I've said, I have a morning protein shake with coffee as I enjoy it over another half chicken breast or can of tuna. Same as the intra workout/BCAA drinks. Are you going to individually mix up some electrolyte and anti muscle fatigue ingredients or just take a scoop with everything in it that actually tastes good.

I just find it funny that the biggest bashers of supplements are the ones with no or minimal results. I've put up my training log with what I do and what I take. The results speak for themselves. If you've got a better alternative, by all means lead us by example.


And the jerry can analogy is flawed. If you consume too much protein your body will still use it as fuel. Just an expensive fuel source.

Bazza20
18-05-2016, 11:59 AM
How do you know the vitamins you take actually contain clinical dosages? You could and most likely are just getting "pixie dust", just enough so the the vitamin can claim it has that ingredient. It just seems that for someone who claims they do a lot of research, you don't even research the few things you do take.

Supplements/protein powder/BCAAs don't only need to be taken when deficient, but as an alternative to the whole food. There are many reasons for this such as it's more convenient or you just want to mix it up. Like I've said, I have a morning protein shake with coffee as I enjoy it over another half chicken breast or can of tuna. Same as the intra workout/BCAA drinks. Are you going to individually mix up some electrolyte and anti muscle fatigue ingredients or just take a scoop with everything in it that actually tastes good.

I just find it funny that the biggest bashers of supplements are the ones with no or minimal results. I've put up my training log with what I do and what I take. The results speak for themselves. If you've got a better alternative, by all means lead us by example.


Any the jerry can analogy is flawed. If you consume too much protein your body will still use it as fuel. Just an expensive fuel source.

I agree with your points on Multis and the Jerry can analogy is terrible but with bcaas aside from liking the taste or convenience any actual benefits are only going to be there if you are under eating protein.

Anyone on any type of highish protein diet will have more than enough bcaas

steveP
18-05-2016, 12:10 PM
Yeah I think we established that. If in a surplus or even maintenance, they aren't going to do anything other than be a cheap, sugar free alternative to sport drinks.

On previous cuts I sort of took them now and then and didn't really check the dosages. I lost muscle mass and strength being on say 1650 calories. This cut I made sure I was getting a dose of 5-6g every training session, cutting on the same calories. Sometimes I'd double scoop on long hiking sessions with a weighted vest. This time around I made strength gains right up until the comp, and no noticeable lean muscle loss. There are other factors I'm sure, but for $1 a serve, it's well worth it for me.

Plus you get the other ingredients such as electrolytes and beta alanine for anti muscular fatigue. Far better value for money than a Gatorade or similar drinks.

Bazza20
18-05-2016, 12:17 PM
Yeah I think we established that. If in a surplus or even maintenance, they aren't going to do anything other than be a cheap, sugar free alternative to sport drinks.

On previous cuts I sort of took them now and then and didn't really check the dosages. I lost muscle mass and strength being on say 1650 calories. This cut I made sure I was getting a dose of 5-6g every training session, cutting on the same calories. Sometimes I'd double scoop on long hiking sessions with a weighted vest. This time around I made strength gains right up until the comp, and no noticeable lean muscle loss. There are other factors I'm sure, but for $1 a serve, it's well worth it for me.

Plus you get the other ingredients such as electrolytes and beta alanine for anti muscular fatigue. Far better value for money than a Gatorade or similar drinks.

I'm not sure why you are comparing it to Gatorade. It's not even the same type of thing.

You could make the argument that your diet needed work rather than the bcaas stopping you losing mass.

It's a pretty safe bet no one here needs beta alanine or electrolytes either.

Personally I love a sugar free rockstar or monster for training. Love the taste no other reason.

steveP
18-05-2016, 12:25 PM
Same. I'll have one before a leg or hiking session. But according to Mick, it's unnecessary money spending and you're wasting your time. Why not just just have some BBQ and a glass of water. After all, based on no evidence, you're killing yourself with the "chemicals".

I use the same logic with an intra workout drink, it's not needed but I like drinking them. I'm comparing them to Gatorade as they are a salt/electrolyte sup drink meant to be drunk around workout times. But 3x the price with nearly all the calories coming from sugar. Fine if you need the sugar though.

If you train intense or regularly enough, you'll benefit from electrolytes due to salt loss from sweating. My point was that most of the BCAA drinks contain more than just BCAAs, so they are quite good value for money.

Bazza20
18-05-2016, 12:44 PM
I'm perfectly fine with drinking and eating things for no reason other than the taste. Why not. We are not pro athletes here so why not fit enjoyable things into your diet. Like you said their is no evidence of these dangers of drinking a sugar free or even a full sugar softy if you fit it into your diet.

Id put a lot of money down that no one on the forum needs or would show actual benefit from electrolytes for their training. It's it going to do any harm, not likely so it's no big deal.

So big Mick is anti supp these days. Wasn't too long ago he was the supp fan boy. Even buying bootleg liver tabs behind the hungry jacks.

Goosey
18-05-2016, 12:54 PM
The one and only supplement that I can see that would benefit the hobbyist could be fish oil, but you better be sure it is good quality, and how does one know?
eat a piece of fish regularly

Goosey
18-05-2016, 07:23 PM
http://www.newsweek.com/vitamin-stops-aging-process-organs-study-453526

Shrek
18-05-2016, 07:32 PM
Yay, I'm gonna buy some Nicotinamide Riboside. They said it works
☺☺☺

Goosey
18-05-2016, 07:42 PM
lol

Stiffy
19-05-2016, 05:13 AM
Came up on my Boobtube list. Sums up what I always believed



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODkZQ9JOaQ

Grunta
19-05-2016, 01:50 PM
Came up on my Boobtube list. Sums up what I always believed



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ODkZQ9JOaQ

He forgot arse cancer

Goosey
11-08-2016, 05:27 PM
I like the look of carlson's super 2 gelcap' in fact I'm going to purchase...

Repacked
11-08-2016, 06:29 PM
I like the look of carlson's super 2 gelcap' in fact I'm going to purchase...

Faark mate. I hope you've thought this through.

Have you been to a Dr. to confirm that you are in fact deficient in all of the included vitamins and minerals? If you haven't you are likely to put excessive strain on your kidneys undoubtedly leading to dialysis, suffer placeboidioticus syndrome, and not absorb any of the vitamins/minerals which will probably lead to increased global warming (if you even believe in that scam designed by the illuminati to keep the masses from rising up in an end-of-days anarchistic Armageddon); not to mention wasting your money on expensive piss that is excreted the color of gullibility.

Have you conducted your own double blind placebo controlled studies to determine the efficacy of this particular brand? Have you at least read research reviews of peer reviewed research papers that are accepted by 99.99% of the scientific community to verify this? If not you could be placing yourself in grave danger.

If you cannot access the required scientific data then don't despair. There are experts within this very forum who will be able to provide you with the uselesss opinions scientific expertise you require to make an educated decision; or alternately the level of belittling and ridicule required to ensure that you won't make the same mistake twice. Remember, it'll be for your own good because as an educated middle aged adult you are probably not as capable of making a considered decision about what you stick in your mouth as remote strangers.

Best of luck.

Goosey
11-08-2016, 06:50 PM
Got the all clear, I'm deficient in all vitamins, minerals and enzymes.

on the topic of enzymes, I started a course of these and the results are dramatic, a good dramatic.

i also like the idea of gel caps, when I was using tablets I used to chew them.

Repacked
11-08-2016, 06:52 PM
Digestive enzymes?

Goosey
11-08-2016, 07:02 PM
Digestive enzymes?


Yes mate.

Repacked
11-08-2016, 07:12 PM
Yes mate.

What digestive advantages are you gleaming?

Stiffy
11-08-2016, 07:21 PM
This dude credible????



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UINxaAxii_o

Goosey
11-08-2016, 07:48 PM
That dude in the video, states some health care professionals people, especially the old can't produce enzymes, I think he's right.

is he credible?
dont know, don't care.

i bought a bottle, because I recently felt tummy cramps, smelly farts, and not regular like I'm normally.
after two days of taking them I feel a good change, no that is either bad timing or they really did make a difference.

ill take these for the next few days and then stop, I'll see how it goes.

but I think there is benefit for me in take vitamins, minerals and enzymes now and again.

Goosey
11-08-2016, 07:51 PM
What digestive advantages are you gleaming?

My guts feel better, after a few days taking them, two or three weeks ago I started being irregular, cramps and smelly farts.

it would be funny if the enzymes had no effect, but it was just really bad timing and my condition just rectified itself naturally, we'll see.

Repacked
11-08-2016, 08:09 PM
My guts feel better, after a few days taking them, two or three weeks ago I started being irregular, cramps and smelly farts.

it would be funny if the enzymes had no effect, but it was just really bad timing and my condition just rectified itself naturally, we'll see.

On a slightly different tangent, I tend to believe the growing body of evidence which suggests gut flora can have far reaching effects on our bodies.

Stiffy
11-08-2016, 08:19 PM
It's something I've been hearing for almost 30 years, off and on. I one tried them back in late 80s or early 90s. Don't remember them doing much. They were sticky things too back then. But the ones now would be a lot more advanced. Just concerned by that vid of the bloke who ended up taking 17 per day!!!

Does the Body adapt to them and slow down its own ability to produce its own. I guess it'll restore that ability?????

Goosey
11-08-2016, 08:27 PM
On a slightly different tangent, I tend to believe the growing body of evidence which suggests gut flora can have far reaching effects on our bodies.

Yeah totally!
15 years ago I remember reading a series of articles in Stuart McRoberts hardgainer magazines about how we are being misinformed about cholesterol and our food choices, it was written by Sally Fallon, it really resonated with me and it wasn't until a couple of years later I bought the book; nourishing traditions by Sally Fallon on Amazon that she went into detail about enzymes among many other things and how important they are to general health.

she was very much ahead of her time and still is.

Goosey
11-08-2016, 08:33 PM
It's something I've been hearing for almost 30 years, off and on. I one tried them back in late 80s or early 90s. Don't remember them doing much. They were sticky things too back then. But the ones now would be a lot more advanced. Just concerned by that vid of the bloke who ended up taking 17 per day!!!

Does the Body adapt to them and slow down its own ability to produce its own. I guess it'll restore that ability?????

Stiff.

i really believe, like most supplements are only beneficial when you are deficient.

Fallon believes that enzymes in our food are critical to general health and that in most processed foods cannot supply the nutrients required.

she very big on full fat dairy products like meat, butter, kephir and such where most enzymes come from

Goosey
11-08-2016, 08:35 PM
It's something I've been hearing for almost 30 years, off and on. I one tried them back in late 80s or early 90s. Don't remember them doing much. They were sticky things too back then. But the ones now would be a lot more advanced. Just concerned by that vid of the bloke who ended up taking 17 per day!!!

Does the Body adapt to them and slow down its own ability to produce its own. I guess it'll restore that ability?????

This is the problem with most things we do, if some is good more must be better!!!?

this is why there is such a huge problem with health and fitness it's a fucking industry

Stiffy
11-08-2016, 08:44 PM
Cheers Silvergoose. On spread.

Shrek
11-08-2016, 09:03 PM
Digestive emzyne deficiency can be diagnosed. Have you been diagnosed Silver?

Goosey
11-08-2016, 09:31 PM
Digestive emzyne deficiency can be diagnosed. Have you been diagnosed Silver?

No

Barrylap
09-07-2019, 06:32 PM
I agree with Rick. Since i am not comic geek can anyone explain me why Nick Fury is turn to black?

Shrek
09-07-2019, 07:26 PM
I agree with Rick. Since i am not comic geek can anyone explain me why Nick Fury is turn to black?

Nick who?

onslaught
09-07-2019, 08:24 PM
I agree with Rick. Since i am not comic geek can anyone explain me why Nick Fury is turn to black?

The actor playing Nick Fury has always been black. HTH