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Our new ingredient replacing DMAA in our Pre Workout

Bulk Nutrients

Site Advertiser
We're getting lots of questions emailed in about the new stimulant we've selected to replace DMAA - here's an excerpt from our website statement:

Regardless of what you read from other manufacturers utilising replacement ingredients, (we expect a lot of hype and claims about better replacements) there is nothing currently available, which exhibits as strong Central Nervous System Stimulation as DMAA.

The replacement we have selected N MethylTyramine, is the most effective replacement as far as we are concerned. The dosages utilised by us are considered effective, most testing having confirmed the dosage of 50mg per serve.

Although not as powerful stimulant as DMAA, the benefits of N MethylTyramine is that it is legal (at least for now) and is completely acceptable for any drug tested athlete, whether in or out of competition.

PRE WORKOUT POWDER NT - 250G

Bulk Nutrients.
 
Thanks for the update! Good to know some alternatives are coming out.

A cursory Google search says tells me there's quite a lot of debate about NMT, for and against, e.g. Patrick Arnold for example attacks it pretty heavily:
Patrick Arnold A new stimulant or a new scam?
Patrick Arnold More reasons why NMT won’t work

Will continue to research before I see this as a replacement for me - if you've got any good info on why you selected NMT, that'd be great and help the decision making!
 
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but there may never be a substance similiar to Dim's ability. Legislators are looking into drafting laws to prevent this..........at least in my neck of the woods. But once one state does it others will follow.

With regard to N-methyltyramine I'll await BRICK'S review!:)

Question to Bulk Nutrients: are you guys releasing N-methyltyramine in pure powder?
 
Thanks for the update! Good to know some alternatives are coming out.

A cursory Google search says tells me there's quite a lot of debate about NMT, for and against, e.g. Patrick Arnold for example attacks it pretty heavily:
Patrick Arnold A new stimulant or a new scam?
Patrick Arnold More reasons why NMT won’t work

Will continue to research before I see this as a replacement for me - if you've got any good info on why you selected NMT, that'd be great and help the decision making!

Hi Stew,

Basically we have gone for the most popular replacement for DMAA rather than gamble with some others that are less familiar, so it is the one that us and other companies have established as the best (and with any luck) the safest stimulatory effects.
 
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but there may never be a substance similiar to Dim's ability. Legislators are looking into drafting laws to prevent this..........at least in my neck of the woods. But once one state does it others will follow.

With regard to N-methyltyramine I'll await BRICK'S review!:)

Question to Bulk Nutrients: are you guys releasing N-methyltyramine in pure powder?

Hi Stu,

Yes, this is exactly right and the message we want to make clear - we are not saying it is better or even EQUAL to DMAA. We would rather be honest here rather than take the route some other companies are doing saying it is better and stronger.

We may release it in pure form, depending on demand. This won't be for a few months though as our current stocks of N Methyl Tyramine aren't that big.
If it turns out to be popular and we buy larger stocks, then by all means we will offer it in raw form.
 
N-Methyltyramine

Found this (non peer reviewed (I'm assuming) article) online a while ago, forgot to post it. Here it is.

N-Methyltyramine (4-Hydroxy-N-methylphenethylamine)


Background
N-Methyltyramine is the methylated version of L-Tyramine (through the addition of a methyl group at the N terminal), a naturally occurring monoamine compound that acts as a catecholamine releasing agent. N-Methyltyramine can be found in nature from plants such as
barley and Citrus aurantium, the latter being commonly used for Synephrine content (NMethyltyramine is converted to Synephrine by Dopamine  -hydroxylase). Unlike Synephrine, N-Methyltyramine has not been observed to display any lipolytic activity, due to the lack of a
beta-hydroxyl or a beta-ketone. It’s mechanisms of action imply that it acts as a peripheral sympathomimetic compound. NMT is similar to Synephrine and Hordenine, with the addition of a hydroxyl group at  distinguishing Synephrine from NMT, and substitution of a dimethyl
group at the N terminal resulting in Hordenine.
In general, when dealing with sympathomimetic compounds, a primary or secondary aliphatic amine separated by 2 carbons from a substituted benzene ring is minimally required for high agonist activity. Along with possessing this characteristic common to adrenergic agents, the
presence of a hydroxyl group in the benzene ring at the 4th position shows that NMethyltyramine has excellent alpha and beta activity adrenergic receptor activity.
Pharmacokinetics
-39% bioavailability through p.o use.
-90% of orally ingested NMT is absorbed in the small intestine, particularly in the lower jejunum and the ileum.
-NMT is metabolized in the liver, but not in the small-intestinal mucosa.
-Hepatic intrinsic clearance value is 2 liters an hour.
-The plasma concentration time curve and bioavailability of NMT after oral ingestion were well predicted by the GI transit absorption model with the hepatic first-pass metabolism process.

Actions
N-Methyltyramine is known to possess 2 adrenergic receptor activity, to increase plasma and myocardial cGMP and cAMP levels, has been observed to increase renal and cerebral vascular resistance, and lacks a beta-hydroxyl or a beta-ketone group, implying it is an indirect acting
amine that releases cytoplasmic norepinephrine from sympathetic nerve endings, similar to tyramine. Vasoconstriction during exercise due to the use of NMT is not likely because during exercise, the 1-adrenergic receptors activated by the norepinephrine released by NMT can be
selectively blocked by sympathetic nervous activity, allowing the 2-adrenergic receptors to dominate. While it may appear to have 1-adrenergic activity, there is no observed action on amylase activity after administration of N-Methyltyramine.
N-Methyltyramine most importantly has the properties of an 2-adrenoceptor antagonist, albeit a weak one. 2 blockers significantly increase adrenergic, dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotransmitters, increase insulin secretion and decrease blood sugar levels. The usage of NMethyltyramine also leads to an increase in blood pressure, relaxation of the ileum, an increase in force of the right atrium due to norepinephrine release, and an increase in rate of contraction in right atrium due to norepinephrine release.
N-Methyltyramine has also been found to be a constituent of beer. When tested, NMethyltyramine was found to stimulate pancreatic secretion via the cholinergic gastro-pancreatic reflex, meaning the stimulation of pancreatic secretion observed after drinking is likely due to NMethyltyramine.
Although gastrin production may of concern to those looking to use NMethyltyramine, it is likely only to be an issue for those who are predisposed to illnesses such as hypercalcaemia, and the dosage required of NMT for this likely exceeds doses that will be utilized for p.o use. As always, consumers should check with their physician before the use of
any supplement, so if there is any concern, please check with your physician before using NMT.

Summary
N-Methyltyramine is the methylated version of L-Tyramine, a naturally occurring monoamine compound that acts as a catecholamine releasing agent. It is known to:
• Significantly increase adrenergic, dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotransmitters by acting as an indirect sympathomimetic amine.
• Increases insulin secretion and decreases blood sugar levels.
• Increase plasma and myocardial cGMP and cAMP levels.
 
Governments v DMAA (USPlabs)

Heres two links for the "clinical research" USPLabs (makers of Jack3d) is relying on for their case that DMAA was/is safe, for those that haven't yet thrown out all their DMAA PWO. Remember to flush it by Tuesday night.


USPlabs Shares Results of Seven Peer-Reviewed DMAA Safety Studies as Part of Scientific... -- DALLAS, March 7, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --

Clinical Research |


Moderator etc: feel free to delete this post without contacting me should it contravene any AUSBB rules or be "old news".


P.S. remember the DMAA Research website is run by USPLabs.
 
Might be a heap of energetic gym goers Tuesday having had 5 tablespoons of the stuff ;)

Like that dude in New Zealand (RIP) who died after taking DMAA. HE TOOK THE EQUIVILENT OF 22 SCOOPS OF JACK3D WHILST DRINKING ALCOHOL!!!, so I read. This formed part of the case against DMAA. FOOK ME!!!

Other parts of the case against DMAA are the U.S. soldiers dieing (2) from heart attacks and apparent liver and kidney problems. But soldiers get kidney problems alot due to dehydration. The research I've read (non USPLabs research) indicates that DMAA doesn't adversely effect the liver or kidneys (although I suspect it would).

One tosser wrote a submission to the TGA supporting the immediate banning of DMAA as it is addictive. he states "........sell products for no other reason then it's addictive properties" What a croc! Is anyone in here addicted to DMAA? I hope that tosser Googles this - You Tosser!

While I understand the various governments "duty of care" to its citizens and to some degree support DMAA's need to be controlled, surely categorizing it as Schedule 9 (poison) rather than Appendix C (controlled substance) seems to prevent further wide spread research into a product which has been shown to help people with A.D.D. and Depression when other drugs don't and have far worse (known) side effects.

Is DMAA really in the same category as Herion, Cocaine, Speed and Pot.

If it was categorised under Appendix C they could limit the amount of DMAA allowed in PWO couldn't they. Prevent its abuse etc. Research it more thoroughly. Instead people are going to be taking PWO loaded to the tits with Caffiene. Ban No-Explode too due to its caffiene content then. I wish the TGA would release a more thorough explanation of its (interim) decision. I'm going for a cold shower.
 
reminds me of the hoyts essence you used to be able to buy years ago , 2 cups for sugar some water throw in 375ml bottle of essence , cheap night of drink , sure they shit tasted fould the first mouthful , but after that your tastebuds couldn't taste a thing

anyway they banned it because someone died after drinking a bottle straight

victoria atleast and this was back in the late 90's early 2000
 
Here Here.

And heres another thing. DMAA has been on the market now for six (6) years. What if DMAA does cause massive health concerns like growing a third testicle (in girls too). How are those people who have been taking it going to know this (and prevent it) without further widespread research.

(1) More research!
(2) TGA releases a more thorough explanation of its decision rather than the one online: Reasons for scheduling delegates' interim decisions & invitation for further comment, July 2012

Public submissions on DMAA referred to ACMS#6 (July 2012)

More research, more explanations please.
 
How did it go from
"There is inadequate evidence to suggest DMAA's toxicological and pharmacological properties warrant a Schedule 9 listing."

to
"there are risks due to DMAA's toxicity;"


Going to be interesting to see if it ends up in court.
If they ban it with lack of evidence, there is nothing stopping the manufacturer/s or end users suing them.
 
How did it go from
"There is inadequate evidence to suggest DMAA's toxicological and pharmacological properties warrant a Schedule 9 listing."

to
"there are risks due to DMAA's toxicity;"


Going to be interesting to see if it ends up in court.
If they ban it with lack of evidence, there is nothing stopping the manufacturer/s or end users suing them.


Good point Lex.

I have looked and looked but cannot find evidence of DMAA's toxicity. And yes, do manufactures and retailers of DMAA have a cause of action against the various governing bodies for lost earnings. I suspect their arses are covered by some legislation or common law preventing this.........but I was wondering this too!
 
Someone please explain to me DMAA toxicity. Is it because its a manufactured substance, because of the methyl in its name or something. No evidence of this or explanation from the TGA! Please.
 
Sorry Lex. I was posting a reply last night when something happened. Either Graeme (not Graham) tripped over the server extention lead or men in black from the government were trying to shut us up. I was worried Will Smith was going to come through my door last. I didn't just sleep with my blow up doll last night, I slept with her on top of me for protection.

I've looked at all those "articles" online. That first one is a law firm in the U.S. I would pay it little credibility. The rest I have read and found over a long period of time.

There is no proof of DMAA's toxicity online. That guy in N.Z. (RIP) took a massive quantity of DMAA and then drank alcohol I read elsewhere. He died of a brain haemorage, not toxicity.

I could state:
"GROAR's arse is huge"
But how many people have seen GROAR's arse or groped it? (except for Bella)
Its an unsubstantiated statement.

Same thing with DMAA
DMAA is toxic
No substantiated proof including from the TGA.

There is proof of DMAA increasing working blood pressure etc. But no proof of it being toxic.

I've missed this morning workout gotta run, I'll check in tonight.

Apologies for bringing GROAR's arse in this!
 
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The thing that set the whole ban into motion was a US Army soldier who had a stroke while on a pack march after a night out on the drink (and presumably drugs) turned out they were going out all night on the piss then taking shitloads of jacked to get through their 14hr pack marches. It was then made a banned substance in the states for army personell and banned from sale on military bases. Within 6 months it was banned altogether. Australian authorities been the sheep they are followed closely behind.

One must ask the question was it attempting a forced 14hr pack march dehydrated or taking jacked that caused the stroke? Moot point really dickheads gonna do stupid shit and die and the authorities are always gonna have a knee jerk reaction. Shits gone now gonna have to get your uppers the old fashioned way off of dealers or by abusing cold and flu medication.
 
Those lawyers are part of the problem, ex-senators in the US get listened to by the corporate and government lawyers
 
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