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Beginners and steroids

0ni

0ni

Registered Rustler
I was thinking about this the other day and was wondering about people's advice regarding WHEN someone should start taking steroids and other hormones.

There is a lot of advice out there as to when, from "you should lift X amount" to "you should have been training for X time" and it all seemed very arbitrary to me - and to an extent it is. I never understood why people picked these because of this, as if when you achieve the above you're magically able to take steroids and benefit from them. I had a big long think about this and what the criteria for taking steroids REALLY were and this is what I came up with:

When you're a natural trainee, your training will either work or it will not . Being natural allows you to figure out what works in your training. What exercises, rep ranges, volumes, intensities etc work best for you. "I've stalled in this lift so should I eat more, make a form adjustment, do a high volume cycle, change the frequency" and so on.

If you start using hormones before this point, you do not learn this. You never have the chance to. Your strength and mass stops increasing on your 500mg of testosterone a week, so what do you do? You think instead "should I up the dose? maybe add an oral? change of steroids?" while if you had waited until you're more experienced you would have just done the damn thing that got you out of your rut when you were an unhormonized trainee.

I think this is very unclear for a lot of people. Lots of people will know this inside but they are not very good at putting their thoughts onto paper for whatever reason and invariably say something like "you are not ready". I think this is a bad approach as it doesn't explain to the young un's WHY this is a bad idea, as well as prohibition being incredibly bad from a psychological standpoint because if you tell someone not to do something without giving a damned good reason they will just go and do it anyway
 
Good article. No thoughts on why you don't supplement before 25 ie you're already full of test and at the peak of your life? Alot of young guys also don't realise what a huge part hormones play in your behaviour pattern and struggle with the off cycle blues.

Nice work Oni.
 
TBH if you're under 25 then you probably have all the testosterone you need
If you're under 25 and not making progress, you probably lack consistency or calories not hormonas

I don't think "my bench hasn't increased in 2 years" is a valid excuse either, that shit's just life. First check your form (always room for improvement) then eat more then try something radically different. It's at that time I personally think you'd get good use out of hormones simply because you know what works for you. I'd even go as far as to say that you'd make better progress in the "medium term" by leaving the hormonas as long as possible

I took orals after 11 years of cycling training and am very happy with the gains I got and have come to the conclusion that I was ready to take them, although in hindsight I think strength training would have yielded similar effects (but I also took them for increased work capacity, not just to get stronger). I don't think I'll be taking hormones again for a good 5 years just because every single week I'm still learning something new
 
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Darkoz said:
Unless you want to compete at the elite level, why take steroids at all?
Click to expand...

It's human nature to want more
After much thought I don't have a problem with this, just as long as you want more for your own reasons rather than to be the biggest guy in the gym or make people jelly etc etc
 
0ni said:
It's human nature to want more
After much thought I don't have a problem with this, just as long as you want more for your own reasons rather than to be the biggest guy in the gym or make people jelly etc etc
Click to expand...
What other reasons are there apart from wanting to be bigger, leaner, lift more?
 
It's risk vs reward and up to each person to decide.

I don't see the risk being worth it to just have ripped abz for summer. Others might.
 
Darkoz said:
What other reasons are there apart from wanting to be bigger, leaner, lift more?
Click to expand...

I have no idea
There is a difference between wanting to progress as a lifter and wanting to be the big dude at your gym though
 
Bazza20 said:
It's risk vs reward and up to each person to decide.

I don't see the risk being worth it to just have ripped abz for summer. Others might.
Click to expand...

Bazza if you took steroids I'd lose all respect for you. Your perfect as you are.
 
Darkoz said:
What other reasons are there apart from wanting to be bigger, leaner, lift more?
Click to expand...

People like things now, now damn it!

The documentary admin posted had a douche like that in it. He didn't even know how to train nor had any size and jumped on roids because he wanted it all now.

If newbies want to juice they will juice no matter what info you give. Personally I could care less as it is their life to screw up, just be honest with people that you use so you don't give false impressions like a lot of kids role models do.
 
dave said:
People like things now, now damn it!

The documentary admin posted had a douche like that in it. He didn't even know how to train nor had any size and jumped on roids because he wanted it all now.

If newbies want to juice they will juice no matter what info you give. Personally I could care less as it is their life to screw up, just be honest with people that you use so you don't give false impressions like a lot of kids role models do.
Click to expand...

This....but Jay Cutler is only on Nitro-Tech and Cell-Tech right???
 
0ni said:
I was thinking about this the other day and was wondering about people's advice regarding WHEN someone should start taking steroids and other hormones.

There is a lot of advice out there as to when, from "you should lift X amount" to "you should have been training for X time" and it all seemed very arbitrary to me - and to an extent it is. I never understood why people picked these because of this, as if when you achieve the above you're magically able to take steroids and benefit from them. I had a big long think about this and what the criteria for taking steroids REALLY were and this is what I came up with:

When you're a natural trainee, your training will either work or it will not . Being natural allows you to figure out what works in your training. What exercises, rep ranges, volumes, intensities etc work best for you. "I've stalled in this lift so should I eat more, make a form adjustment, do a high volume cycle, change the frequency" and so on.

If you start using hormones before this point, you do not learn this. You never have the chance to. Your strength and mass stops increasing on your 500mg of testosterone a week, so what do you do? You think instead "should I up the dose? maybe add an oral? change of steroids?" while if you had waited until you're more experienced you would have just done the damn thing that got you out of your rut when you were an unhormonized trainee.

I think this is very unclear for a lot of people. Lots of people will know this inside but they are not very good at putting their thoughts onto paper for whatever reason and invariably say something like "you are not ready". I think this is a bad approach as it doesn't explain to the young un's WHY this is a bad idea, as well as prohibition being incredibly bad from a psychological standpoint because if you tell someone not to do something without giving a damned good reason they will just go and do it anyway
Click to expand...

Yeah interesting mate, i must have seen a thread like this on almost every board lol! Still its a thread that deserves merit and response to;)

Thing is champ, everyone has different underlying genetics so with that said alone we can not pin-point a specific "Steroid Using Time" for each individual.

Some people probably will benefit staying natural longer, though others clearly show enormous results from the use of steroids and other drugs in sport early on in their careers. You must also remember that natural training will only take you so far, and in the end if you want to compete high up i'm sorry to say but your going to have to take drugs champ.

Some people i believe and from what i have read/seen transform their entire physiques within 6 months of steroid use, then from there they start preparing to compete. Makes you wonder how bad it is to juice up early on aye?
 
I've seen a few threads like this on other boards but I found it never really explained the whys and wherefores regarding it.

With the people who did well in their sport by juicing early on, going back to my point they probably knew how to train or had good coaching. I really think this is the key here - knowing what the fuck you're doing lol

Having said that, you will respond to hormones better the younger you are, so if you want to become a freak then by all means be my guest and load up age 16 after 2 years of training. I'm not really saying that it's a bad thing, just that the only thing they will really know how to do is up the dose or manipulate their stack. Which after a point is the only thing you can do if your objective is mass I guess
 
Yeah i understand what your saying, but you need to also realise that whilst they are using steroids they can still learn everything such as new techniques, new grips, stretches and basically everything to do with the sport. You make it sound as though they have half their brain missing once they decide to use Steroids, and this simply is not the case:)

They still have all their options open in life.
 
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JUICE JUNKY said:
Yeah i understand what your saying, but you need to also realise that whilst they are using steroids they can still learn everything such as new techniques, new grips, stretches and basically everything to do with the sport. You make it sound as though they have half their brain missing once they decide to use Steroids, and this simply is not the case:)

They still have all their options open in life.
Click to expand...

You do not really have the opportunity though, if you're taking gear then how do you know if a technique alteration or if a routine is working? You will always get better and improve so it could be an absolute car crash for all you know but you would improve regardless. The motivation to fix your form would also be lost for the majority of people. I sure as shit know I don't address form or technique unless I'm not going anywhere in the lift
 
michaelcritien said:
i just want to take a little, not too much, just to gain like 7 more kilos
Click to expand...

how much do you weigh now?

0ni said:
You do not really have the opportunity though, if you're taking gear then how do you know if a technique alteration or if a routine is working? You will always get better and improve so it could be an absolute car crash for all you know but you would improve regardless. The motivation to fix your form would also be lost for the majority of people. I sure as shit know I don't address form or technique unless I'm not going anywhere in the lift
Click to expand...

Mate come on are you serious? Wether your on the gear or not, you can change each and every single component to do with training. Steroids will increase your red blood cells and thus this allows the body to hold onto more nitrogen(protein). Your body already has red blood cells in it, the steroids simply increase the amount of red blood cells, simple right?

So with the above being said, there is no reason why you can't change techniques etc whilst on the gear. It sounds like you almost have a phobia of experimenting with new things whilst on the gear. Not having a go at you either champ:)
 
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