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View Full Version : Leg tendon = no more squats



Jim_Junkie
14-02-2011, 08:28 PM
I've had this re-occuring problem with a tendon in my leg, went to the physio got it fixed and now it's back again.

It always happens at the bottom of a squat when I try to push back up again, it flares up.

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa327/greenape69/cgjbdflgvbkmdf.jpg

It's located by the red line.

Anyway I'm going to try and stretch it our for a week and hopefully let it heal, does anyone know of some other exercises I can do in the mean time to hit the quads specifically? if not I can just try and find a machine.

The Hamburgler
14-02-2011, 08:47 PM
Is it only back squats?
I have a similar problem atm.
I find either split squats or UDLs are a little less painful

leachy
14-02-2011, 08:47 PM
Is it your quad, or your hip flexors?

Christian
14-02-2011, 08:49 PM
go see an osteopath looks like hip flexors.

http://www.flexibilityexercises.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/hip-flexor-stretch.jpg

THis helps

Jim_Junkie
14-02-2011, 08:54 PM
Is it only back squats?
I have a similar problem atm.
I find either split squats or UDLs are a little less painful
yeah only on back squats, oh really I'll check them out.


Is it your quad, or your hip flexors?
yeah hip flexor sounds more accurate.


go see an osteopath looks like hip flexors.

http://www.flexibilityexercises.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/hip-flexor-stretch.jpg

THis helps

osteopath? I'll have to look one up! yeah I'm currently doing that stretch but it doesn't seem to be helping. mmmm

leachy
14-02-2011, 08:57 PM
How wide do you set your footing when squatting? You might need to bring it in a bit, it could be too wide.

Jim_Junkie
14-02-2011, 09:50 PM
it's around shoulder width and feels pretty comfortable, although I have a feeling it's my flexibility that's letting me down

The Hamburgler
14-02-2011, 09:55 PM
Sounds more and more like my problem.
if you sit down with you legs straight how far can you lean forward before your back starts to round?

TLS
17-02-2011, 10:55 AM
One of your 4 quad muscles does both knee extension and hip flexion. It crosses both joints.

pistachio
17-02-2011, 01:23 PM
im taking this week off the gym, going to the physio and getting massages to try to fix the same problem that i have.

so far, nothing has worked :( and i start squatting again next friday. it even hurts when i sit down (as that is the equivalent to the bottom of the squat). not badly, but i can feel it.

let me know if you find a solution to your problem, as i think there are a few of us with VERY similar problems.

Goosey
17-02-2011, 03:07 PM
What is your occupation?

Are you sitting down or standing?

The Hamburgler
17-02-2011, 03:19 PM
im taking this week off the gym, going to the physio and getting massages to try to fix the same problem that i have.

so far, nothing has worked :( and i start squatting again next friday. it even hurts when i sit down (as that is the equivalent to the bottom of the squat). not badly, but i can feel it.

let me know if you find a solution to your problem, as i think there are a few of us with VERY similar problems.

Yeah all of a sudden all of us are having hip issues lol
I just want to squat god dammit!

Jim_Junkie
17-02-2011, 04:28 PM
Sounds more and more like my problem.
if you sit down with you legs straight how far can you lean forward before your back starts to round?
not too sure, but I know my back does round a little bit at the bottom of the squat. I don't think that's the problem however.


im taking this week off the gym, going to the physio and getting massages to try to fix the same problem that i have.

so far, nothing has worked :( and i start squatting again next friday. it even hurts when i sit down (as that is the equivalent to the bottom of the squat). not badly, but i can feel it.

let me know if you find a solution to your problem, as i think there are a few of us with VERY similar problems.

wow you too? Yours sounds a lot worse than mine, you sure it's not a hernia? I've taken a week off squats and am just doing hip flexor stretches each day, so far it's feeling better. will let you know how it progresses.

pistachio
17-02-2011, 04:43 PM
What is your occupation?

Are you sitting down or standing?

Desk job - no doubt part of the problem


Yeah all of a sudden all of us are having hip issues lol
I just want to squat god dammit!

I know!! I just want to get big legs already :S


wow you too? Yours sounds a lot worse than mine, you sure it's not a hernia? I've taken a week off squats and am just doing hip flexor stretches each day, so far it's feeling better. will let you know how it progresses.

fucking hope not lol

i seriously doubt it tho, seeing as my heaviest squat has been 150kgs. hardly feels like an over-exertion injury. pretty sure its mobility/flexibility related. its probably just inflamed at the moment. got to get rid of the inflamation first and work on flexibility/mobility so it doesn't keep happening

Goosey
17-02-2011, 04:47 PM
How much walking and other activities do the ones with this issue do between your weight training?

Iron Alliance
17-02-2011, 05:29 PM
T NATION | Yoga, Yes Yoga, For Big Bastards (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/yoga_yes_yoga_for_big_bastards)

Had the same thing, couldn't squat or sit down without pain. Done this twice a day for 2 weeks now and it's only a small amount of discomfort in the flexor and I can squat just fine. Hurts a bit when you first start doing it.

I put it down to mainly the Prayer Squat and a bit for the Hero Pose. The rest is kinda useful.

In short stretch your hip flexor and foam roll/stretch your glutes.

For SB: I do alot of walking about for my job and used to do more so in the form of a morning walk 6 days a week. I found the amount of walking did a number on my flexors/heel. Also hill sprints, though fun, would have me trouble walking after 3-4 sessions of 'em just due to the flexor.

The Hamburgler
17-02-2011, 06:08 PM
I saw my physio again.
My problem stems from anterior pelvic tilt + tight lower back and hammies.
Gave me a couple of pelvic tilt exercises to do, and also recommended that I start squatting again - but only as low as I can go in 100% perfect form (which for me is about 70 degrees atm)

jzpowahz
17-02-2011, 08:33 PM
what sort of APT exercises has he/she got you doing?

The Hamburgler
17-02-2011, 09:05 PM
I have videos of them in my log but basically one is lying on my back, tilting my pelvis to the posterior and pulling my femur back into my hips gently. The other I'm lying on my back, again tilting my pelvis then extend my legs out in the air as far as I can go before my back arches back to it's normal positions. These and anything that encourages glute-ham activation

strong enough?
18-02-2011, 09:02 AM
the pain you are describing is tendonitis in your rectus femoris, which is actually part of your quad, although it also acts as a hip flexor). It is caused by inactive, inhibited or weak glutes & hammies. The glute/hams might be inhibited or weak from a structural point of view, which requires specific activation strategies, but usually it's a technique problem more than anything.

The technique problem I'm talking about is described by Rippetoe in Starting Strength. Basically it's caused by not sitting back in a back squat. If you let you knees shoot forward at the bottom of the squat to hit depth, basically your hamstring is relaxing and loses control of the angle of the pelvis (hamstring attaches to both the hip and the knee). The combined loss of control at the knee and the hip means your rec fem gets tugged from the ASIS causing bad tendonitis.

If this is the problem stretching your hip flexor could make it worse not better, so just be careful not to overstretch. Treat it like any soft tissue injury. Rest, Ice, anti-inflamms if it's too painful (but they will make it heal slower).

Definitely foam roll rec fem (quads), even better use PVC pipe. You lie face down with the pipe under the centre of your quad. pull your feet to your buttocks to itensify the hit on rec fem (as it will put it on stretch).

Then fix your squat. Use a vertical block of wood 1" in front of your toes when you squat, which will force you to sit back (otherwise your knees will knock over the wood).

The other possibility is you have an tight inhibited psoas. This is the muscle that should be keeping your hip stable throughout a squat. If it's inactivated, it will get overloaded and really tight. It will also force other muscles like TFL and rec fem to control the hip (which they are not designed to do).

Google psoas activation and you'll see some drills to turn on this muscle.

either way the long term strategy isn't to lengthen the rec fem (although stretch if it helps relieve symptoms) because it's not a flexility issue - it's a pelvic control issue. Your forcing rec fem to do a job it's not designed to do which is why it's hurting. Once you have good hip contorl, the glute/ham will get stronger from squatting and the rec fem will loosen through reciprocal inhibition.

Finding a good physio is hard, because many do not understand the mechanics of squatting, but there are good ones and they can help a lot with these issues.

Jim_Junkie
18-02-2011, 06:48 PM
hey strong enough was that directed at me, or?



T NATION | Yoga, Yes Yoga, For Big Bastards (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/yoga_yes_yoga_for_big_bastards)

Had the same thing, couldn't squat or sit down without pain. Done this twice a day for 2 weeks now and it's only a small amount of discomfort in the flexor and I can squat just fine. Hurts a bit when you first start doing it.

I put it down to mainly the Prayer Squat and a bit for the Hero Pose. The rest is kinda useful.

In short stretch your hip flexor and foam roll/stretch your glutes.

For SB: I do alot of walking about for my job and used to do more so in the form of a morning walk 6 days a week. I found the amount of walking did a number on my flexors/heel. Also hill sprints, though fun, would have me trouble walking after 3-4 sessions of 'em just due to the flexor.

thanks Iron, that looks really good. I'll go through that tonight and see how I feel :)

strong enough?
19-02-2011, 05:53 PM
hey strong enough was that directed at me

yep, directed at you.

Jim_Junkie
19-02-2011, 06:40 PM
the pain you are describing is tendonitis in your rectus femoris, which is actually part of your quad, although it also acts as a hip flexor). It is caused by inactive, inhibited or weak glutes & hammies. The glute/hams might be inhibited or weak from a structural point of view, which requires specific activation strategies, but usually it's a technique problem more than anything.

The technique problem I'm talking about is described by Rippetoe in Starting Strength. Basically it's caused by not sitting back in a back squat. If you let you knees shoot forward at the bottom of the squat to hit depth, basically your hamstring is relaxing and loses control of the angle of the pelvis (hamstring attaches to both the hip and the knee). The combined loss of control at the knee and the hip means your rec fem gets tugged from the ASIS causing bad tendonitis.

If this is the problem stretching your hip flexor could make it worse not better, so just be careful not to overstretch. Treat it like any soft tissue injury. Rest, Ice, anti-inflamms if it's too painful (but they will make it heal slower).

Definitely foam roll rec fem (quads), even better use PVC pipe. You lie face down with the pipe under the centre of your quad. pull your feet to your buttocks to itensify the hit on rec fem (as it will put it on stretch).

Then fix your squat. Use a vertical block of wood 1" in front of your toes when you squat, which will force you to sit back (otherwise your knees will knock over the wood).



ahh okay I think we've found the problem, yeah my knee's do tend to come forward a bit.

I feel really unstable when I sit back, any suggestions? otherwise I'm just going to youtube the form and practice with the block like you said.

dw_1
22-02-2011, 03:00 PM
wow
i have had this for a cpl of years now , its 1st occurred when i starting using the leg press for a change around in my training
id feel this real tight pull right up in the left side groin area then id be limping for a few days afterwards

i left it a week or 2 then wennt back to resume training, id squat and seemed ok then move to the leg press and BAM i get it again
pain was worse than the 1st time
took 3 months off and resumed in my usual work in phase came back again
hard to walk had to lift my leg into the car for a few weeks seen dr after dr they are useless

eventually went to see my sports dr and had an mri it showed the region and bascially found that the tendon is really tight now and will need to be loosened thru surgery eventually if his suggestion of using my own growth factor extracted from my blood injected into the problem area doesnt work which will mean months of rehab!

i feel for you who suffer not sure if your is the same as mine but i have to limit my depth alot and take it really easy training legs

DREADLIFT
15-03-2012, 08:32 PM
BUMPPPPP

Developed a similar hip tendonitis issue, according the Mark Rippitoe in starting strength its from the knees moving foward once your in the bottom of the hole, putting stress on the hip tendons as they are pulled foward.

Anyway, ive stopped ATG squatting for a while and am stretching it regularly through all ranges of motion, has anybody else had this, and would box squatting (pain free) be a suitable substitue for squatting, but still allowing the tendon to heal. Or should i just avoid all squatting movements altogether.

Edit, only read first page before posting. Still relevant, would box squatting without pain still allow the tendon to heal...?

strong enough?
15-03-2012, 10:31 PM
If you can box squat without pain, go for it.

this is the same strategy I've recently started using.

I got another bout of rec fem tendonitis on my last squat cycle - it was crippling - couldn't squat for 3 weeks before a comp. dosed up on anti-inflams for the comp and managed to squat 145 but wincing in pain.

In my case, its not knees going forward (confirmed by video analysis), its just a symptom of being quad dominant and overloading the rec fem tendon. this is why I think this injury is so common in adults trying to learn how to squat - quad dominance. I've focussed on building up the glute tie-in on the hamstring, which is the direct antagonist muscle of the rec fem. This is exactly where box squats hit.

I took a few months off to take a break from lifting and give the tendon a chance to heal - it's very painful otherwise. I started back recently.

The quad dominance (and lack of training) is so bad my 5RM on squat was 135 and starting back my below parallel box squat started at 45kg and was difficult :eek: Its building up very quickly and its already starting to loosen the front of my hips.

DREADLIFT
16-03-2012, 06:15 PM
Thanks for this, will substitute below parallel box squats in and see how it goes.

chocchillimango
16-03-2012, 07:37 PM
you probably already know these guys but they're brilliant:

MobilityWOD (http://www.mobilitywod.com/)

lots of great mobility and flexibility drills you can do with videos to show you how and when to do them.

I've been doing the ankle mobility drills and some hip flexor ones (but my problem is mostly ankle from an injury).

For back squats, I'm still sitting at around 75 degrees but getting better so it must be helping. :D