Max Effort training/method

Yes I dare mention it! lol

I thought seeing as though Markos posted the thread on speed work/dynamic effort method of training, I might aswell post a thread about Max effort training/method.

As speed work, Max effort work is widely used within PowerSports in some form or another - here is a great article that I read ages ago in regards to Max Effort training - this is written by Dave Tate and is focusing on the Westside method of Max Effort training.

[SIZE=+2]T[/SIZE]he Westside method is a Periodisation program known as Conjugated Periodisation. This simply put means that several abilities are coupled together throughout the training. The western method of periodisation separates these variables while this Westside method puts it all together at the same time. The entire Westside method is centered around three basic methods of strength development Maximal Effort, Dynamic Effort Method, and the Repetition Method.
The Maximal Effort method is considered by many coaches and athletes as being the superior method of strength development. It places great demands on both intramuscular and intermuscular coordination and well as stimulating the muscular and central nervous system. These demand force the body into greater adaptation. This adaptation is what is responsible for strength gains. When training using the max effort method the central nervous system inhibition is reduced, thus the maximal number of motor units are activated with optimal discharge frequency (Zatsiorisky). The one draw back to using this method is that you cannot train with weights above 90 percent for much longer than three weeks before the nervous system begins to weaken. When this happen your strength will begin to diminish. This is one of the major reasons why progressive overload will only work for so long. With this in mind and knowing how good this method is in the development of strength development Westside set out to find away around this three-week barrier. The way to over come it is to switch the exercises used for the max effort method every one to tree weeks. This keep the body fresh so the method can be used year round.

[SIZE=-1]Max Effort Parameters[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Load (Intensity)[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]90 to 100%[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Number of Exercises[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Repetitions[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]1-3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Rest Interval[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]2 to 5 minutes[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Frequency / Week[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]1 (Squat Day) / 1(Bench Day)[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Weeks per Exercise[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]1-3[/SIZE]
So how do you use this method? The best way to utilize the max effort method is deciding on one main exercise that will be trained with this method. After a proper general warm up you proceed to this exercise and begin to warm up with the bar. Taking small weight increases you begin to work up in weight with sets of three reps. when three reps begins to feel heavy you drop down to single repetitions. This is when you begin to try to max out on the exercise. Keep increasing the weight until you have reached your one rep max. Make sure to keep track of what this record is because this is what you will try to beat next time out. A max effort exercise would look like this:

[SIZE=-1]Exercise[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Sets[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Reps[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Weight[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Floor Press[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]2[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]5[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]45[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]2[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]95[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]135[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]185[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]225[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]3[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]275[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]315[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]365[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]405 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]425[/SIZE] In the above example, 425 would represent the lifters one-rep max. This is the number that should be recorded to break on a later date. It is very important to only use this method with only one exercise per workout and no more than one time per week for each lift. The Westside method schedules one max effort day for the bench and one for the squat and dead lift as follows:
Monday: Max Effort Day for the Squat and Dead lift
Wednesday: Max Effort Day for the Bench Press
Since many of the same muscle are used for the squat and dead lift, they are trained on the same day. Actually very little dead lifting is performed with this style of training because of this reason.
The Max Effort Exercises should also be closely related to the squat, bench press and dead lift, and all should have a very high strength carry over value. These exercises include: Box Squats, Good Mornings, and Dead lift for the squat and dead lift days and Board, floor, Close Grip. Incline and Band Press for the Bench Press. These are just a sample list of over 1000 different max effort exercises that can be performed for max effort days. See index for complete list
The best max effort exercise for the squat and dead lift are Good Mornings, Low Box Squat and Dead lift. The good morning is probably the best overall exercise for strength development and should be utilized 70 percent of all Max effort days. There are several different types of Good Morning that can be performed. Good morning using a variety of different bars such as the safety squat bar, buffalo bar, and cambered bar are classics at Westside barbell. Many of these good mornings are performed suspended from chains. By suspending the bar from the power rack to perform the good morning (Anderson good mornings or suspended good mornings) you are creating the same specificity as when you dead lift. This is because you start the dead lift without any eccentric or lowering motion. This is also true when you have to squat under a suspended barbell and lift it to a standing position.
The best max effort exercises for the bench press are the Floor Press, Board Press, Close Grip Bench Press, JM Press, and Reverse Band Presses. All Pressing motions! As with the squat and dead lift max effort exercises, there are several variations of each movement. Each exercise has a specific function. For instance, the floor press takes your legs out of the motion so greater emphasis is placed on the pecs, delts and triceps. The close grip incline press takes your lats out of the motion so there is greater emphasis placed on the deltoids and triceps. The board press also take your lats out of the motion and provide you with the opportunity to train at specific points of the bench press.
The max effort meso cycle should only last 1 to 3 weeks with the later being for the novice and intermediate strength athlete. The more advanced the athlete the shorter the time spent per cycle or time spent per max effort exercise. This is due to the neuromuscular coordination and motor learning. The advanced athlete can call upon more motor unit activation (use more muscle) than the novice. For example the novice may use 40% of their total muscle while the advanced will be able to use 80%. The second reason is the neuromuscular and muscular coordination. The advanced lifter has always figured out and mastered how to do the movement. His body knows what to do and when. The novice athlete has not figured out how to do the movement and is far from mastering it. This will allow the novice to progress and break records for around three weeks on each max effort exercise. This however will not be the case for the advanced athlete. These athletes will have one good week where they break a record then will be unable to break it for the next two weeks. So the solution is simple, switch every week! This will allow you to break records each week and avoided overstraining. Max effort training by the way is a process of learning how to better synchronize the muscle involvement. This is because of the activation of the central nervous system as well as other factors such as motivation and concentration.
If you do not always break a record, don’t worry about it. The strain is more important than the record itself. With this in mind, if you happen to break your record and it was very easily to the point you really didn’t strain, then you must take another record where you actually strain.
Dave Tate cscs

As Markos wrote in the speed work thread - Max effort training is the corner stone of his PPP program and also alot of strength programs.

I feel that the westside method of training needs to be varied slightly to suit a non-equip lifter and also I like to include more deadlifting within the program - alot of the time westside will not deadlift for upto 4 weeks in a training cycle - which I do not agree with.

Lets get some discussion going, thoughts, ideas etc!

Some of the main max effort exercises we use at PowerSports:

Bench:

Rev band press (normally done with red band)
Board press - 1 through 4
Chains - with varying weight
Floor press - again done with chains sometimes/or bands
Close grip bench - again with chains/bands/boards


Deadlift:

Banded
Chains
rack pulls - from varying heights
trap bar
rev band


Squats:

rev band
safety squat to box
zercher squat
chains
banded
high box


Etc etc - these are only a small amount of variations you can do with your Max effort training cycle - I normally like to change the exercise every 1-2 weeks, 80% of the time it will be every week.

While I agree with plenty of Westsides principles here, experience has shown me that it may not be the best system for my clients at this point in time.

As far as I'm concerned, if you want a big bench press, bench press, same goes with every other lift.

Louie bases this program on the Russian weightlifting team that dominated in the 70's and 80's, and he happily tells everyone this. They used a shitload of different movements to make sure they had no weakness, and they dominated weightlifting.

Then the Bulgarians came along. They squatted, snatched, clean & jerked, and some front squats. Thats it.

Now they dominated weightlifting using a totally opposite approach, just do the basic lifts and keep adding weight.

Which one is right, which one is best, well, both and neither.

these guys were elite athletes. Louie places adds looking for elite athletes to join Westsides team.

I am very proud to not have even one elite athlete join PTC, everything we have achieved, which is extremely minimal when talking about these other great places, was done inhouse with average novice lifters.

there may come a time when we have to change our system, but thus far, with lifters at the level they are, things are going smoothly.

Work the basic lift hard and heavy, identify weaknesses (elite lifters dont have these) strengthen weaknesses with assistance or speed work.

It is very simple and basic and takes from both the Russians and the Bulgarians.

Louie works with lifters far more advanced than I do, and his system works very well for him, it didnt for me.

I think alot of training gets somewhat based off the westside view of training - if that be as small as having a max effort bench day to having a full westside template but your max effort work is done by flipping a tyre and your speed work is done by vert jumping.

I think people would find it interesting to see how you use the Max effort method within a program such as your PPP program Markos.

There are many different forms of "max effort" training, I have prob just touched on the most widely known and maybe used idea/method of the max effort principle....I would like to see what other ppl consider max effort training or what they use for there max effort training.

As I said above for my powerlifters our max effort movements will be based on the squat/bench/deadlift - normally variations of them....but for my footy players it maybe be flipping a heavy ass tyre.

Work the lift, work hard and heavy and work on weaknesses. Couldn't agree more Markos. From what I have read of Louie's work he is freaken big on weakness work and it makes sense until you take too much away from doing the actual lift. I guess as you get more advanced it will go a little bit more towards working on your weaknesses over just doing the lift though, sadly a lot of people who use his work from the net are not tht advanced.

Personally max work or me is a 10x2 rep workout for the main lift. 85% week 1, 90% week 2, 95% week 3. Repeat for another cycle and then do a 1RM workup on the 6th week.
Posted via Mobile Device

dave said:

Work the lift, work hard and heavy and work on weaknesses. Couldn't agree more Markos. From what I have read of Louie's work he is freaken big on weakness work and it makes sense until you take too much away from doing the actual lift. I guess as you get more advanced it will go a little bit more towards working on your weaknesses over just doing the lift though, sadly a lot of people who use his work from the net are not tht advanced.

Personally max work or me is a 10x2 rep workout for the main lift. 85% week 1, 90% week 2, 95% week 3. Repeat for another cycle and then do a 1RM workup on the 6th week.
Posted via Mobile Device

Click to expand...

Louie is very big on working on weakness - I think if you want to look anywhere for how to work on weaknesses, pre and rehab, glute, ham, lower back, hip development Westside pretty much have it down pat - they will have there 4 main workouts and then upto 6 smaller workouts focused around pre/rehad and GPP - of course this does not work for everyone but taking some of there ideas and putting them into your own training is always a good idea.

I myself follow alot of sheiko style training at the moment - but will add in the westside idea of speed work and also the prehab work.

I'd like to add something along the line of how the average novice lifters should train differently to elite lifters. I was watching Dave Tate's video on bench press cure here: TMUSCLE.com | Dave Tate's Six-Week Bench Press Cure

and he ranted about something that made me pay attention immediately. He said that most guys would ask him what exercises they need to do to improve their bench press: board press, chain, floor press blah blah blah, and Dave responded: "how about f*cking bench right first?"

His point was that if you're an average novice/intermediate lifter, likely your technique is the biggest weakness, not some parts of your body.

Still, without max effort training, you'll never know that your technique needs work. It's easy to have awesome form with a not very challenging weight.

Dave Tate said:

According to Zimkin, as much a 10 to 15% of strength can be lost in a period of a few weeks. This is where a percentage-based system has many problems.

Click to expand...

This is the same argument Louie runs for why periodisation doesnt work. Anyone who's spent any time in the gym knows that you won't melt if you dont max out for a few weeks.

Markos how is your program based on ME work? you vary volume/percentages before peaking.

I'm not a fan of periodisation to be honest. I think you need to be constantly lifting heavy weights to get strong.

One thing I have factored into PPP is that after you max out at week 11, say the 200kg plan, week 1 of 210kg is a decrease in effort weight wise, but the reps seem to kill the lifter.

So I'm not decreasing the intensity, just the max effort a little.

I also have allowed for a 2 week "mental" break where a lifter can simply bodybuild, and still get 4 cycles per year in.

Dave Tate and Jim Wendler are good mates, is Dave saying that Jims 5-3-1 is flawed because its % based?

Now, as far as peaking goes, it was our first run through at the last comp, and going by the guys lifts, it was a success.

I would have liked the comp to be the week after our 11th week, but I didnt get PPP finished, so we behaved like week 7-8 was our finish.

I had an idea to hit our 1RM or opener for the deadlift 9 days before the comp.

we did very few reps and hit our opening bench and squat on the Monday and Wednesday before the Sunday comp. We hit them both twice in the week. On the Friday we simply used a 40kg BB and did sets of 10 in the squat/bench/dead/MP to stop from tightening up.

This was all experimentation, and what I learned was that all the guys that lift 3 times a week at PTC pretty much hit PB's in every lift.

Guys like Kaspar, Nathan, Jayden, Vicki and a few others didnt, they train once a week.

Nico and Kelly only visit once a week, but they do PPP at their own gym, and Kelly does deadlift/bench in the one session at PTC and Nico covers all 3 lifts.

So I believe in lifting heavy for the bench and squat up to 5 days before, and a longer break for the DL.

I really dont like too much time away from heavy weights.

But please remember, my guys are drug free unequipped lifters, thats not who Elite and Westside deal with, they will be using MUCH heavier weights than us, weights they obviously couldnt handle drug free and unassisted, so their CNS takes a beating.

Hope this helps.

I'm a bit suprised you say that actually. Looking at your program it seems to start off with lower percentages (70%) before accumulating up into max lifts, rep range varies too.

Technically Louie would dislike 5/3/1. Basic periodisation has worked for me, which is why I find ME so odd.

If you have a look at the logs on elitefts a lot has changed though - they still use the ME set up but the DE is commonly ditched for RE days, most guys squat, bench and deadlift every week and the volume's been lowered overall.

Remember my program is designed for my lifters that compete first.

Instead of an actual deload, we get started straight away. Week 1 is MUCH harder on your second program than it appears.

I'll give you some examples.

Annie, like everyone else, simply added 10kg to her new comp PB, which was the same as her gym PB anyway. She had been flying on the first program.

She failed week 1.

Nathan last night did the same, except he failed 3 sets on week 2.

Nick decided that he would do 240 squat rather than 230kg, like I instructed. After 1 set on the 240kg program, he dropped straight back to 230kg.

On paper it appears there is a huge drop in intensity from week 11 to week 1 on the following program.

In testing, that is far from the case.

Simmo, Mick, Kat are others who have failed in the first week of the second program.

I will be interested to see how everyone else goes.

Max never stopped lifting after the comp, straight into on Monday, the next day, others did. He has smashed week 2 and doesnt look like missing.In fact, he has not missed a single set from its inception.

He has also made the bench harder than it needs to be. He actually pauses EVERY SINGLE REP, not just the first rep of every set.

This is one of the reasons why I dont like deloads or periodisation. After a layoff, no matter how small, lifters lose strength. Those that say they dont, werent lifting anything heavy in the first place.

My preferred method is to lower the weight a little but increase the reps, keeping the effort high.

as many have found out, this is very difficult to get through.

Whilst the system isnt perfect, no system is. Its seems to be working though.

the big test will be to see how much the lifters progress at the Nats now that we have a baseline for their performance from the States.

We have to wait till the middle of August.

Again, I always use Max as a barometer, because he always does everything right, no missed sessions, no missed meals, no missed sets.

If he improves, and others dont, its not the program, its the lifter.

Through injury, laziness or other matters, heaps of lifters have already missed sessions since the States.

Fat Dave 4
Dimi 4
Alen 2
Nick 2
Simmo 2
Nathan 2
Vicki 2
Jayden hasnt trained once
Nico 1

So Max has trained 8 times since the States.

I am so lucky as a coach to have Max as a barometer to tell lifters to f u c k off when they whinge about results or anything else.

One boy yesterday, Nathan, didnt bother coming to a session because he can do bench at his gym. He only benched 80kg @ 94kg at the States.

Last night at PTC he missed 3 of his 5 sets, week 2 of his bench. Should he be missing sessions?

Anyway, off topic. I'll have better information in 10 weeks for you Oli, just facts, no theory.

How's your training going Markos?
I don't think I've seen you write about youself.
Posted via Mobile Device

Seldom do Andy, I didnt talk about myself when I was stronger, why bother now?

You training M?

He is, I've seen his "training" thread on ns.com

Started back a month ago, so far have had no niggles, knee, shoulder all feel fine. I have been slack since the States, but its been real busy in the gym lately, lots of new clients.

Excuses, I'll get a workout in this weekend though.

Dancelot, that thread was a bit of a joke lo, Nick and Max keep asking me what I'm lifting, I wont tell them, but Max saw me pressing a big DB overhead one handed when he came home from school, so he doesnt believe I'm deadlifting 40kg anymore lol

PTC said:

Nick and Max keep asking me what I'm lifting

Click to expand...

Weights perhaps?

In all seriousness, you planning to compete mate? Or just looking to get strong again?

Doesn't CAPO have an old fossil div? You'd do great, Markos, go for it! :^)